Tell me about Triumph tourability...

[ofrogg]

I'm curious.

A friend is very interested in buying my R, and I'm very interested in new bike... Looking at the R1200ST and the Triumph Sprint ST. Any input? I'm impressed with the offer the Sprint can put on the table... and free hardbags right now too. But what do you get with the extra 3ish thousand on the beemer. And yet, i'm leaning toward the beemer... closer service, i'm comfy with the maintainence, i won't have to get non-bmw boots (just kidding)...

Oh yeah... I'll be dissappointed if Dallara doesn't fill the WHOLE PAGE with input, so start clicking away.:058:

[Sir Limpsalot]

Both BMW and Triumph are keen on their dealers running propper test bike fleets. Obvious thing to do is to ride both. Then give a lot of hard thought to exactly what you are after in your new machine.
If you favour a spot of home maintainance, for example, then the Beemer is possibly easier to do the basic stuff (valves etc). But then the Triumph only has one oil to change instead of three.
The Beemer's "single wire" canbus system means any elecrical diagnostic work will be dealer only. This is not an issue during the warranty period, but how long do you intend to keep the bike?
The Triumph, of course, has a chain drive and it was the maintainance chore of this that caused me to sell my (old) Sprint. This was mostly due to the fact that I tour a lot in bad weather. I don't choose to, you understand, it just somehow singles me out. If you ride mostly in good weather then the chain is no bother at all. In some ways a chain is a bonus, if you want to change your final drive gearing for example. I would like to raise the gearing on my current 850R but the cost is going to stop me. The Triumph cost me £20 for a new sprocket.
The "Telelever" front end of the BMW is probably the thing I shall miss most when I return to Triumph.
The Triumph has ABS as an option, should you want it. The Beemer comes with the ABS "servo" and I can't imagine anyone wanting *THAT*.
In the end, ofrogg, only you can decide what is right for you. Both have strengths and both have weaknesses.
I would sum it up by saying: If you want a SPORTS tourer then the 1050 Sprint will delight you. If you want a sports TOURER then the Erics should get your money.
Report back here with your decision, the problem is not mine. But I wish it was.
Si

[Dallara]

Sorry to disappoint you, Ofrogg... :031:

But I don't a thing about either of those two bikes. I like the new Triumph's - a lot - 'cuz I love three-cylinder engines, and maybe one day I'll own one. I've never been able to get comfortable with the styling on the BMW R-1200-ST, so it's never been on my radar.

I went an entirely different direction and ordered/bought a 2006 Yamaha FJR-1300 (if the damn thing will ever get here... :076: Damn Yamaha PDP program!) to supplement my R-1150-R.

I'm gonna' bet that Dean Lear is going to be your best bet for info on the R-1200-ST, and Dave Howe (Darthrider) is going to be most knowledgeable here about the Trumpet's...

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NACD)

[Deans BMW]

ofrogg, I don't know how to answer your question. I have not ridden a modern Triumph and I am a BMW nut. My R1200ST has been fantastic and it seems to live between 6 grand and the revlimiter, the thing flat flys in the real world of undulating mountain roads, I just went on reserve at 210 miles on the tank after a little ride this afternoon, prolly hit 135 4 or 5 times, (rev limiter in 5th) and still have 40 or 50 miles left on the tank, with only 18,000 miles, the bike has been completely trouble free.

[BobFV1]

ofrogg -

I sure am starting to like the Hexhead power plant, even though mine is subtly different than the ST guys'. If I was deciding between a Triumph and a BMW, most other things being equal, I would look hard at the loacl dealers - proximity, parts support, knowledge, customer service orientation - etc.

Good dilema to have!

[DarthRider]

Mr. Frogg -

Not sure how much I can help on Triumph tourability...never toured on one.
Tales of the old Meridan Triumphs won't help at all and racing Tridents at Bonneville won't help either. My direct experience is limited my '06 1050 Speed Triple but that may be of interest.
Her name is "Hoochie Mama" because it fits her well...draw your own conclusions. But...in 3600 miles run as hard and fast as either break-in schedules or laws allow, she has used this much oil: Zero, nada, zip. And I watch it close.
Chain lubes & adjustments? I've adjusted the chain 3 times now, once just to learn how, once when it needed it (slightly) and once when it didn't. I've lubed it about 6 times I guess...a 5 minute job, including retrieving, opening and tasting a good cold beer.
The fuel injection seems better than on my '02 50R. It "crackles" on decel and it sounds really cool, unlike the blam-O exhaust fart the Beemer treats me to in the most embarrassing times & places. The BME gets 35 MPG, the S3 gets 48.
The brakes will detach your retinas and are very linear and easy to modulate...although for some reason, the 1050 bikes have master cylinders with about 40% lever travel free play...this sucks and is inexcusable.
Fit & finish are very nice but not BMW nice. About Jap nice.
Components are top shelf...DID 530 X-ring chain, upper end Showa suspension, fully adjustable and a bit "soft", at least on the Speedies.
I hear they solved whatever hard bag probs the STs were having and now have a nice setup.
Hoochie responded well to the installation of the "off-road" cans and is now a pulling, reving Mo-Fo...the ECU will be re-flashed tomorrow.
Along with new Continental Road Attacks (an experiment) to replace the most excellant OE Michelin Power Sports, this at 3600 miles of pretty steady hard acceleration and harder stops...both brakes please!
NO luggage cap at all on the Speedies so I'll never know about sport touring, but hey - that's why I kept the 50R!
The handling is excellant, just a notch shy of pure sports bikes...and I don't have to put up with the unpleasantness of a younger man's clip-ons.
It doesn't sound like anything else...not even close. Not necessarily "better", just "different", a guttural howl that must be heard at redline to be fully appreciated. Far better than ANY BMW twin I ever heard...you can make 'em loud but you can't make 'em pretty. Unless you like to hear a long string of wet-farts. I've had 3 Beemers, two of them hot rods and I never could make them sound good.
The ST will be a good deal cheaper and has what I hear is a very good ABS option (no servos or links Mien Heir!)

My recommendation: Ride them both and buy the one that makes you laugh out loud in your Arai, not just smile...they will both make you do that!

And let us know...and post lots of pics and tell us all about the new sweety.

Dave

[Sir Limpsalot]

Reference your excessive brake lever travel: Purely in the interest of experimentation you might like to try this dodge.
Using a suitable implement and being very careful, ease the pistons back into the calipers. The same way you would if installing new brake pads. Then pump the lever to restore the pressure in the system. This works on the normally mounted calipers, but yours are, of course, the latest radially mounted jobbies and I've never tried it on them yet.
Let me know if it works.
Si

[DarthRider]

Funny you should mention that Si...this morning I had some new Conti Road Attacks mounted by the Triumph dealer and the ECU re-flashed for the Triumph "off-road" cans I installed last week.
I was describing my displeasure with the master cylinder and showed him how much "free-play" is designed into them. And the lever, even allowing for excess free travel, is pretty spongy. This after they had changed the fluid & bled them at about 1000 miles after I came in with the same complaint early on.
The Svc. Mgr. (an old friend) said all he could do was change the fluid again, but he tried something else...he dismounted the radial mount calipers first so he could move them around at various attitudes while bleeding them. He also used an instrument to push the pads & pistons back as you said.
Bottom line: it still has a bit too much free travel but the spongy feel is gone! I think the more-than-usual free travel had combined with trapped air to make a GREAT Nisson brake system feel pretty shitty. Your trick and/or moving the calipers around must have displaced a bit of trapped air in them as the brakes are now as SUDDEN as they are STRONG. Chirp 'em with one finger, make 'em howl with two!
I'll remember this one and he will too after I report back to him.

These two tricks could also be used on other bikes with a persistent spongy lever.
Thanks!

Dave

[ofrogg]

Well, I got to take a R12ST out for a while yesterday, the ride was rather full of little troubles (low gas on the outset, had to stop and fill'er up, then traffic traffic traffic, then a 10 min. train stop... grrr.:091: ) Anyway, it's the second time I've been out on one, and it was... good. But good is all I say. I love the motor, rather like the looks, but for an around towner, and slow speed manuveurer it doesn't really match the R1150R's upright option and wide bars.

Today, i rode down to Denver in the morning and got to take a Sprint out. I like the bike, but it didn't really strike me as being THAT much different then the R12ST. They both go really fast, but don't necessarily let you know it. As in, you roll the throttle and you start to wonder, "why is everyone going so slow... oh, cuz i'm 20 over the limit" apply brakes now.

Here's the kicker. I have a bad feeling that if the 12R was out RIGHT NOW, I'd have no predictament at all. When I'd try to gaze at the Sprint, I'd think, "Damn, that's a pretty bike..." but then I'd glance over at the S3 and the Sprint would be outta mind. I worry that I may be a naked bike kinda guy.

I think I like the R12ST a little better, but $4000 better? Worse yet, do I like it better then the R1150R?

ugh.

-owen

[MidlifeMark]

That's the thing about Beemers as far as I'm concerned. I like the new ones a whole lot, but I don't like the ones I've already got any less as a result. And at only 50,000 and 42,000 miles on my oilhead and airhead respectively, I'm not going to wear either of them out any time soon. So, short of wreck, grand theft motorcycle, or catastrophic maintenance issue, I think I'll be hanging on to what I've got for the foreseeable future.

[Deans BMW]

ofrogg, try out the R1200GS.

[ofrogg]

ofrogg, try out the R1200GS.

I did... I felt like I was riding a Lay-z-boy. I think I'd like an ST with a full remus for punch while at speed... and a set of risers maybe... or maybe not, i'm not that old. :confused:

the thing is... if you put the 12GS powerplant in an updated rockster type thing, i'd be sold. BLAMMO... just like that.

[jamming]

Owen, I have an R1200ST, like Dean, I love it! I have the risers on order as I use mine everyday and have crash tested it once:037: .
I also looked at the Triumph ST before I bought mine and I was riding a 03 R1150R that I adored. The Triumph is a great motorcycle, as is the BMW.
The Triumph is chain drive, that's OK with the modern chains, however I do about 18,000 plus miles a year so for me at least once a year for a chain. At least according to the dealer. The BMW..shaft, no worries mate. Shim and bucket valve adjustments on the Triumph, and while I'm comfortable with removing and retiming cams, its a pain. The BMW...good old pushrods and screw type adjusters. The BMW and the CANBUS seems OK but kind of a pain to add electrical accessorries.
They both are excellent motorcycles, so buy the one that makes you want to sleep in the garage with it, buy the one that like Dave said, makes you laugh in to your helmet, buy the one you can hammer the twisties on on the way up to MT. Evans.
Half the fun of a new bike is the looking. Have fun.
Roger

[ofrogg]

well, looks like I'm going R1200ST... turns out, I too am kinda a BMW freak... and support is something I'm into maintaining.

[ofrogg]

buy the one you can hammer the twisties on on the way up to MT. Evans.

When is there ever light enough traffic on Mt Evans to hammer the twisties?

:icon_cry: