Toyota Vs. Honda

[Wild Will]

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/10april06_yamtoy.htm

[Acacia]

Quote from the article, "...but all the evidence leads us to believe that the answer is yes."

That without giving evidence, but a heap of journalistic speculation! On that basis then I could conclude that Toyota are thinking of buying out Ford because they had a motor in a past Taurus SHO?

What next - Toyota motorcycles and Mazda sailboats?

[BobFV1]

Hmm - that's an interesting article - fun "water cooler" type talk.

I know a lot about marketing, but don't know anything about marketing in the racing industry, particularly how significant a factor race sponsorship is and how important manufacturers consider it to be in terms of brand image. I know they certainly spend a lot of money on it, and Toyota was out of the Formula 1 auto world got a long time and has come in fairly recently with a big budget effort which has been making some fairly deep and impressive inroads.

Toyota and Honda certainly have distinct brand images to me now. Again in terms of F1, Honda has been a player longer than Toyota, and of course Honda certainly has been dominant in all types of two-wheeled racing. I hope both brands continue to contribute in their unique ways to motor sports.

[Dallara]

Hey, Acacia...

Just a quick correction - YAMAHA made both the V-6 and V-8 Ford Taurus SHO motors, not Toyota.

Now, though the article has some nice speculation, let's not forget one important and crucial fact:

YAMAHA WAS INVOLVED AS AN ENGINE MANUFACTURER IN FORMULA ONE LONG BEFORE TOYOTA.

Yes, folks... Yamaha was a F-1 engine supplier from 1989 to 1997, building 3.5 Liter V-8's for Zakspeed in 1989, skipping 1990 but returning in 1991 with a 3.5 Liter V-12 which ran in Brabham's that year, but then moved into a Jordan chassis for 1992. In 1993 Yamaha produced a 3.5 Liter V-10 and became the Tyrell team's engine supplier and remained so through 1996. In 1997, Yamaha's last year in F-1, they produced an all new 3.0 Liter V-10 and supplied the Arrows team.

You can read a bit about Yamahas' F-1 performance on these pages:

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/en10500

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/en10498

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/en10499

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/en10496

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/en10497

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/en10493

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/en10494

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/en10495


It should also be remembered that Yamaha built Toyota's various Supra engines for years, and did about 85% of all Toyota's cylinder head development work for decades as a sub-contractor.

So, it is actually far more logical to conclude that it is Yamaha who is helping Toyota with F-1 engine development rather than Toyota assisting Yamaha with MotoGP.

Here's a pic of Yamaha' 1989 F-1 V-8:

http://www2.yamaha-motor.fr/actu/IMG/jpg/ym50_doc-26-v8.jpg


And here's one of Yamaha's F-1 V-10's:


http://8w.forix.com/engines/ox10.jpg



I can't find a decent sized picture of one of the Yamaha V-12's, but here's a page with some more info on them:

http://www.allf1.info/engines/yamaha.php


Now, while we're on the subject, one shouldn't forget that even Ferrari turned to Yamaha for engine and combustion chamber design help with their 5-valve F-1 engines. Yamaha was enlisted as a design and development sub-contractor by Ferrari from the inception of 5-valve heads for Ferrari...

And Yamaha even built what was potentially the world's fastest "Supercar" of its day and age - The Yamaha OX99 Sports Car. Though never entered into production, the car was unique in that it was essentialy a single-seat Formula One chassis with a road going body on it.

Here's some pics:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/sowhatsitcalled/images/yamaha_ox99-11_side.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/sowhatsitcalled/images/yamaha_ox99-11_cowl_open.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/sowhatsitcalled/images/yamaha_ox99-11_strip.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/deep_blue_v/untitledrt.jpg


Pretty neat, eh?

Yamaha is one of the most saavy engine design and production firms in the entire world, and quite a number of automobile manufacturers turn to them to produce engines... Most recently? Volvo for their XC90 V-8 SUV. Here's a pic of the engine:

http://www.brian1.net/gallery/20041031/dscf8648.jpg


and of the SUV and the engine:


http://images.automotive.com/cob/factory_automotive/images/Features/auto_shows/2004_CIAS/2005_Volvo_XC90__Yamaha%20V8%20engine%20faraway.jp g


And here's a couple more pics of the engine:

http://www.brian1.net/gallery/20041031/dscf8649.jpg

http://www.brian1.net/gallery/20041031/dscf8650.jpg



I guess Motorcycle Daily simply overlooked Yamaha's extensive Formula One background and experience, and that it is Yamaha that has been more involved in racing development than Toyota has, and for more than one manufacturer.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NACD)

[BobFV1]

Allan - You are a walking chronicle of all things mechanical! Amazing stuff - thanks for the perspective.:eusa_clap:

[Capt. Blackadder]

Damn... those are some tasty-looking engines.