R1200S vs. R1200R

[Ed K]

Guys,

Appreciate your counsel regarding my next bike.

As much as I love my RR... it seems I have out-grown it. I find myself itching for more power and less weight.

Since I will remain a one bike guy, and want some low end grunt (after all I drive a 5.7 Liter Z-28), and a bit more upright position, I have eliminated sport bikes...and some of the similar cross-overs...e.g. FZ1.

Cruisers are fine, but not my style.

I am not a racer, and don't have the desire to go the track. But I do enjoy aggressive back-roads riding, typically reving in the 5-7ish range 80-90% of the time in the back roads...going through a rear tire in about 3K. (I know, Dean burns em up in 2K miles.)

So the decision seems to be leading me back to a BMW. Namely the R1200S or the (what I expect it to be) R1200R.

On the one hand, I appears likely the (what I expect to be) R1200R will fit like a glove. But in the same way, maybe too much...perhaps I will outgrow that as well. Will be more practical though.

On the other hand, the R1200S might be a bike that I can grow into. Although not super torque, more, and more lower, than the typical sport bike. But what about the "Fuel Glitches"?? Dean are you out there? And I wonder if tuning this boxer higher than any other, will make it more finicky or likely to break?

GS is a bit tall for me...and if I went in that direction, would prolly stick with the R1200R.

What is your perspective? Which would be the better fit? Which would you rather have?

If you need more info about me... I am an open book.

Thanks guys...

[DJ Down Under]

If you need more info about me... I am an open book.

What color jocks do you wear?...no seriously...what color?..just kidding...I say just wait for the new RR...it's not worth even thinking about it till then..so.what color?

DJ

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

Ed;
I had similar thoughts when I moved on from my Roadster. In fact, I had almost exactly the same considerations. My solution won't work for you though. I bought the Yamaha MT-01 and I am simply in love with the bike 8 months later.
I know this doesn't help since the MT-01 isn't available in the US.

Some aspects of my purchase might help your decision though.
1) Dave (Darth) coined the phrase, but I am living it. "A HP motor is fun some of the time, a torque motor is fun all of the time." Don't be tempted by the inline fours, buy a twin or a triple that makes some power on top but produces usable grunt through the range.

2) The upright position is how I ride. Unless you are willing to compramise the design with risers and such, I think you will be disappointed with the R1200S. The motor and handling sounds great, but the aggresive position needs serious consideration.

3) Shaft or belt drive is a damn good thing. My MT has a chain, and honestly, it hasn't given me any trouble, but I would convert to a belt if I could.

4) I don't like fairings. I don't know your taste, but a fairing changes the nature of the beast. The change is good for some, I hate the feeling.

5) Did I mention torque? If you move from the Roadster to a high reving four, you will be missing the torque.

In the end, if you don't find something you like before the new RR is released, I would recommend waiting.

Some reccommended test rides.
Suzuki SV1000 (naked version) - Great motor, low quality suspension components. Great price.
Ducati Monster. Fun, fun, fun. Maintenance costs and intervals, plus reliability depends on your willingness to accept these things as a price for the fun factor.
Speed Triple. Hoochie mama!!! Ask Dave. I tested one and loved it but the price in Japan was just too much for me. They are priced very nice in the US. Damn fine, and fun motorcycle.

[Moose]

Ed, you've posted the dilemma I face as well. In discussions with Dallara and Darth on this subject they have advised that the R1150R represents a big leap forward in performance over my R1100R. I have given consideration to picking up a closeout R1150R. In pursuit of even more performance I have ridden the Ducati's, Triumph SprintST 1050 and K1200S. After riding those studs, my lowly Rbike feels agricultural in comparison. In particular, an International Farmall SuperM with four row cultivator attached. But I love that pull down low.
So I continue to hold my breath, keep my powder dry and pray to God Almighty in my aisle seat on Sunday morning that the R1200R will appear on the sales floor horizon with that beckoning call to come hither and achieve motorcycle nirvana. Is that too much to ask???? :confused:

[kocook]

Ed K,

ooops...just re-read your post. Those Ks and Rs keep getting mixed in.

[BobFV1]

Hi Ed -

Given the totality of your requirements, it sounds like the new sporty Boxer might indeed be a great choice for you. The Ducati line may also be an option - depending on what hard bag/fairing options you want for yourself you can go from naked (Monster) to a much more refined but exciting tourer, the ST3 or ST4.

I don't blame you for waiting for the bike you want, though. When it comes to motorcycles, there is precious little variety within the various niches and sometimes I think you just have to wait for the right thing to come along to fit most of what you want.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[geechie]

Ed,

Brother, I feel your angst down deep in my bones.

I've upgraded my 1100R with suspension, chip, pipe, and K & N filter in pursuit of more power. At risk of crying "poor mouth", for me it's got to be affordable power... and power that I can afford to maintain. That factor alone makes me look somewhat askance at the 1200ST, although I think an ST would make me a happy man, I would for sure have to settle for a gently used one. And finding one without ABS (for the sake of simplicity) seems to be not an easy task.

I've kicked myself in the butt more than once that I didn't get an 1100S to begin with back in '99, but I really have been very happy with the RR. The R1200S has gone a bit too far in the "sporting direction" for me I'm sorry to say. I had hoped it would be more sport touring oriented, but then that's what the ST is. I'm basically a sport commuter, and I carry stuff — camera and lenses, food and drink, books and music, foul weather gear, stuff I pick up on the side of the road — so I really need to have hard bags. No provision for same on the 1200S.

I'll never have more than one bike at a time, so it's gonna have to be somewhat of a compromise bike. I think the R1200 Roadster will be that bike. More power and less weight than what I'm riding now can only be good. Fuel capacity is also an issue that speaks in favor of the Roadster over the 1200S. And I'm guessing that the operating costs of the R1200R will be somewhat less than either the 1200ST or the 1200S. The 100Hp version of the boxer engine should perform on mid-range fuel and that, over the life of the bike, will be significant. (Perhaps the ST will live on 89 octane as well... Dean?)

The wait is killing me, but I'm gonna stick it out at least until the R1200R is a known quantity. I owe myself that. Plus, every two weeks, my new bike fund grows a little bit larger.

Patience is a virtue,
possess it if you can.
Found seldom in a woman,
and never, in a man.

George

[fnfalman]

Wait for the R1200S to come out and then see how extreme the riding position is. Knowing BMW it's not going to be that extreme. The R1200R is probably going to be the same theme as all of the roadsters that came before.

I love my Rockster but it's simply not sporty enough for me. So the R1200S or preferably an HP2 version of it will be my ticket.

[DarthRider]

Ed -
Jeff (TorqueMonster) posted pretty much what I was going to write.
I would add a couple of comments on the Speed Triple...it would satisfy your torque craving big time. See http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/3534.aspx for specs.
But pay attention to their tagline for this bike too: "Naked aggression". They mean it.
While the R1150R is a somewhat overweight & underpowered "nice" motorcycle, the Speedy is much lighter, much more powerful and not "nice" at all. The feedback & "communication" with this bike are incredible...you know what it's doing all the time and you better be listening. It will reward inattention in unpleasant ways. It is not a very forgiving motorcycle.
The 50R does a lot of things fairly well but the S3 does a few things exceptionally well. Think of it as a sport bike for adults. No back breaking racer crouch, steering geometry just a click more conservative that a pure sporter, rear sets are not knee-binding radical. Top shelf components, fit & finish not quite as nice as BMW but then you aren't paying an extra grand for the "Roundel Tax" either! MSRP is $9,990 but a new Speedy can be had for $9,000...a real bargain for the performance level.
In 3600 miles I have adjusted the chain only twice, but it needed it only once. I've lubed it 4-5 times (a 5 minute job working slowly).
I wouldn't want to tour on it as the ergos are more tuned to hooligancious shorter rides. People do tour on them but with the ergos and near total lack of luggage carrying capacity, but I don't know why. The seat is not all that great, as with most bikes these days.
Frankly, I wouldn't have it as an only bike but is a fantastic 2nd or 3rd bike. It just has a narrower focus than most bikes.
And the most fun you can have with your clothes on!
I doubt the S3 would be for you, given what you said in your post...but it might be. One thing for sure, I'd look at *everything* of any marque that might meet your needs. There is a LOT of cool stuff out there that doesn't have BMW on the tank.
With only one bike you really need to get it right!

Dave

[Deans BMW]

Let me make a suggestion, go test ride a R1200GS standard. You will experience 90% of what a R1200R will be. The tranny, suspension, Boxer engine and uprite seating position will for all practical purposes be the same as the R1200R. A vast improvement over the R1100R and R1150R. With the simple addition of a full Remus, head pipes and can you will truly add 8 RWHP and smooth out the torque curve. I would have to have a R1200GS if I had a drool,drool R1200S.

[fnfalman]

Also, if you want a real sport bike with easy seating position then look no further than the Aprilia Tuono. Either the 1st generation or the 2006 2nd generation will do just fine and I doubt that you will outride this mean machine any time soon. Torque? Try to keep that front wheel down in 1st and 2nd gear when you whack the throttle open. Power? plenty. Weight? Not bad at around 450-lbs wet.

It's a hard core sport bike with hard core sport bike suspension and chassis and no apologies. But it also has an upright seating position for us folks whose backs aren't like they used to be.

[Road Dog]

Guys,

Since I will remain a one bike guy, and want some low end grunt (after all I drive a 5.7 Liter Z-28), and a bit more upright position,
Thanks guys...

I've got the perscription - I think it fits all your requirements and then some:

A Honda Silverwing or Suzuki Bergman.

Light, powerful, upright seating position and not too tall. I borrowed a Silverwing for a few days, it was a blast passing cars on the freeway doing 80 mph - when they saw it was a scooter they always did a double take of their speedometer. I pulled into the left lane in front of a delivery truck who was accelerating - he over reacted thinking it was a little scooter and hit the horn, before he get his hand off the cord I was a quarter of a mile away. These babies are fun. The owner followed me on the Silverwing and stayed on the tale of the wife's 750 Monster I was riding. :082: :082: :082:

Oh, and there is no drive shaft to replace! And talk about brakes....

Bill

[supermotoC]

If we're talking strictly naked "sport standards", then there's a large slection of really good, and few great ones already available. The toughest choice is to decide what kind of riding you'll be doing on it, and then the choice narows itself down. The BMW (R1200R) is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but it depends on what you're carving. I don't want a scalpel if I'm doing 250 - 500mile days, but if I'm just scooting around the city.... There are Ducatis & KTMs & Yamahas & Triumphs & Hondas & BMWs that will fit your needs, but I find defining my exact needs a daunting task - no ONE bike does it all, not the GS, not a 950 Adventure. Seeing where the blade falls with the R1200R will help, but it's focus won't be much different than the R1150R, just a better, quicker, lighter, faster version. Sounds great.

Half the fun of going for a new bike is having the WORLD of choice to peruse...

[Ed K]

Hey Guys, really appreciate your counsel.

Thanks much...stimulated some terrific additional thoughts!

DJ -
What color jocks do you wear?...
Jocks, who wears jocks?

Torque -
I don't like fairings. I don't know your taste, but a fairing changes the nature of the beast. The change is good for some, I hate the feeling.
I generally dont like fairings also; my RR doesnt even have a fly screen.

Moose -

After riding those studs, my lowly Rbike feels agricultural in comparison.
Hate to admit it, but even on 1150 I feel that at times...

kocook -
ooops...just re-read your post. Those Ks and Rs keep getting mixed in.
Ks... Rs... Ed K... RR... KR... RR... RS... understand...

Bob -
sometimes I think you just have to wait for the right thing to come along to fit most of what you want.
I bought a Sportster once...that was a mistake...owned it for three months...expen$ive lesson I dont want to repeat...

Geechie -
I'll never have more than one bike at a time, so it's gonna have to be somewhat of a compromise bike.
I can think of a lot of steeds I'd like to have in my stable, but the trick for me is to pick one that is best for my current and future all-around riding style...

fnfalman -
Wait for the R1200S to come out and then see how extreme the riding position is.
Was thinking the same, the R1200S should be showing up soon...and will at least sit on it to get a feel for the position.
Hmm, Also Aprilla Tuomo...gotta take a visit to the local dealer...who just happens to be about 5 miles from my home.
Any kind of luggage available? What are you maintenance costs?

Darth -
Frankly, I wouldn't have it as an only bike but is a fantastic 2nd or 3rd bike. It just has a narrower focus than most bikes.

I would *LOVE* to own an S3. But as you mentioned...being a one bike guy, prolly won't be on the final list.

Dean -
Let me make a suggestion, go test ride a R1200GS standard. You will experience 90% of what a R1200R will be.
Great idea! I'll do it!

Road Dog -
A Honda Silverwing or Suzuki Bergman
One for each foot!

Supermoto -
The BMW (R1200R) is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but it depends on what you're carving. I don't want a scalpel if I'm doing 250 - 500mile days, but if I'm just scooting around the city
I know...I'll have to compromise...want enough power, rip and zip to have fun, yet also be able to do several hundred without braking my back or without a change in clothes.

Thanks again men!

[DarthRider]

Hey Ed...what a great problem to have, eh?!

Dave

[Ed K]

Yes Dave... there are so many great bikes out there...

Here's an interesting pic...not exactly RR capacity, but I guess it might do...

http://www.bertduursma.nl/pages/sub_r_serie/r1200s/img/r1200s-d.jpg

and fnfalman...the Aprilia Tuomo is a dynamite bike...but could not even find something like what is shown above on the R1200S. Is there?

Thanks,

[fnfalman]

Luggage for the Aprilia is limited to some aftermarket sidebags and that sort of thing. http://www.luggagelocker.com/aprilia.html
http://www.bags-connection.com/oxid.php/sid/dc4aa8a8a2aec6997a0f8fc302bb439c/cl/details/cnid/d3342e8ce2a164884.47312895/anid/71042fb9993db4957.64982211/Aprilia-RSV1000-Tuono/
http://www.ventura-bike.com/english/fitments/display.asp

You know how I tour on my Tuono? A gym bag tied down to the rear seat. Enough minimal clothings and personal hygiene for 4-5 days.

Maintenance is very minimal. The valves don't even need to be adjusted until probably 20,000-miles. First service at 600 of course. Oil change and some inspections at 4600 and another oil change and maybe minor tweaking like bleeding the brake, that sort of thing, fork oil change at 9200. I don't know about much further after that yet.

Labor will be expensive. Your Ape shop will charge the high labor rate like a Duck or BMW joint would. But if you do it yourself then no problem. For oil change, you need a couple of regular socket wrenches and that's about it. Enough to remove the belly pan, remove the oil plugs (2-ea) and the oil filter cover (it doesn't have a screwed on can filter like a Beemer).

Aprilia is known as the Japanese of Italian motorcycling when it comes to quality and reliability; probably thanks to the Rotax engine.

Go check out the 1st generation Tuono and the 2006 2nd generation Tuono. The difference between them is that the 2nd gen is based on the 2nd gen Mille with more refined suspension, chassis and engine. It gained about 10-hp from the older model. Be warned that if you hop on the 1st generation Tuono, you will feel very weird. You perch on top of the bike like a bird. But when it's time to ride, there's nothing like it.

I love my Beemer but I lust after my Aprilia. Hopefully the R1200S will light some fire in my belly the way the Tuono does.

[Deans BMW]

I love my Beemer but I lust after my Aprilia. Hopefully the R1200S will light some fire in my belly the way the Tuono does

You just might have to wait for the '08 BMW :)

[fnfalman]

You just might have to wait for the '08 BMW :)

Is that a hint for the R1200S HP2? I heard the rumor about BMW putting out a true blued sport bike, but if it's not a twin then I'm not interested.

[Deans BMW]

Oh, it will be a twin.............................................. ..............

[Ed K]

Italian motorcycle maker Aprilia, which is also the parent company of Moto Guzzi and Laverda, faces bankruptcy unless it can obtain a large cash infusion by May 3. Bills from suppliers have gone unpaid, and they have stopped shipping components to the company, stopping motorcycle production. Banks have cut off credit for the firm and told the company that it must come up with 7.4 million Euros by Monday to prevent bankruptcy. A government task force has been set up to solve the crisis and protect the interests of Aprilia's 650 workers.

fnfalman ... Hate to bring this up...but what if....? But do you worry about it (the company, not you) going bellie-up? ...And then difficulties getting parts and/or service.

[fnfalman]

Piaggio already bought out Aprilia last year and gave them a ton of cash. That's how Aprilia got the funds to develope and manufacture the new Tuono and the new dirt bikes.

[Capt. Blackadder]

I really hope they sort it out. :eusa_pray:

I've been eyeing that Moto-Guzzi 1200 "Norge" lately... :118: