A couple of suggestions...

[DarthRider]

...for later when all the "moving in" and the hundreds of things our Tech Gurus are doing that I don't know about are done, I'd like to see a couple of forum topics added.

The first topic we talked about on Dougie's Board and on MSN Groups (well, I did anyway). I'd like to see a Writer's Forum established as an internet home for motorcycle related writing. We have several talented writers on here already, probably more we don't know of, and others sure to join us once they find out there is a place for them. It is virtually impossible to find good, or otherwise, motorcycle writing on the internet. There is plenty of "travelogue" stuff and that's fine but where do you find short stories, poetry, humor, biographies, profiles of interesting racers, riders, and just plain "stories" of which we all have many? You pretty much don't.

I'm working on an erotic, horror, biker short story. Now you can't buy entertainment like *that* folks! :confused:

This could start as simply as just another forum page with similar "bump up or fall off the page" structure. Then as we grow, the organization could be refined or adapted to our needs.


The other suggestion is a section for photography. Similar to my old "Eye Candy" thread that drew a LOT of participation and interest. The images could all just be scattered amongst the others threads, as they are now but that is sort of the problem...they are scattered.
It would seem nice to archive them in a section dedicated to photos, and comments about them of course. Again, this could start simple and later be divided up by many kinds of categories.

I'd sure like to see us do more to manage the great images that are now and will appear here, than just let them slide off the page towards oblivion.:(


I think these are some of the things that will differentiate us from all the other forums out there...along with our common ownership & control, etc. We need the best structure and content quality we can muster also if we are to be really different, better.
We have told each other many times how remarkable and diverse the level of experience, knowledge & talent is in this group. These would just be ways to honor and capitalize on that.:)

Again, this is for later.

Dave

[socalrob]

I second the call for a writer's forum. I think it would be unique, & might really draw a great kind of person to the forum, & could easily become the very best thing here. Please lets do it now.

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

I'm working on an erotic, horror, biker short story.

I'd like to audition for the lead role in the movie version. I think I'm perfect for it.
Anything I do erotic is certain to be short and would probably scare the hell out of any onlookers.....Oh, and I ride a bike!:eek:

[geechie]

Oh, and I ride a bike!
A torque monster, at that. Sounds perfect.

But seriously folks: I think a writers forum is a great idea too. How do you set it up though? Do you start a thread with the piece itself and then let everyone chime in with comments and critiques? Taste being the individual thing it is, that could be a bit dicey. One of my first posts back on he other side, was a bit of criticism of a piece that the Rider of Darth had posted. We've long since gotten over that little deal, but at the time... Well let's just say that my criticism was not well received.

I'm a pretty avid amateur photographer, so I kinda like the photo section idea. too.

George

[Deans BMW]

I think that it is a good idea on both counts, I would suggest that to add content to either section would require the poster be a paying member.

Just a thought.:cool:

[arkline]

Regarding a Writer's Forum....

I want to set that up as a separate part of the site. My "vision" is to have a means for full members to submit either original pieces of MotoLit, reviews of MotoLit (either what is on the site or real world books, magazine articles and other web sites) and short news items about the motorcycle industry. There will be a link on the main page (not yet half-baked) and a link at the top of the forums section. If this works, then I'd like to have a section on MotoArt that would work substantially the same way.

I think these sections will have more permanency than a forum structure, since in the heave-ho of the forums, things get pushed out pretty quickly.

[Deans BMW]

What can we say, Ron is the man.

[DarthRider]

Ron -
Yes! Excellent!
Frankly I just forgot you had drawn the site plan that way...much better.:o
I think we should air out some ideas before we "go-live" on Moto-Lit & Moto-Art and it looks like we're headed that way. Maybe we can just keep this thread live towards that end.
The architecture you laid out was very good, now if you could just get yay-hoos like me to remember to follow it, we'll have it made!:)

Dean-O -
Yes, paid members only can post! But let's let the non-payers look.

Jeff –
Be careful what you wish for Bro…the male lead in my “erotic, horror, biker short story” might not be the role of your dreams! The name of the piece is “Shadow Girl” and actually started from a poem I wrote and something Orson Bean said on the Tonight Show years ago.

I was going to do it as a Halloween piece for TexMoto magazine, now Ride Texas but when their focus shifted towards wanting me to do “My favorite B&B within 200 miles of home” type stuff we parted company. Since then they have sharpened their focus and have become a very good regional motorcycle travel magazine. I plan to hook back up with them after I retire and have the time to travel, and do the type of writing they want.

I’ll finish “Shadow Girl” for Café for Halloween, assuming we have the Writer’s Forum up.

Goerge -
Criticism…that’s an interesting question. Frankly I’d forgotten that’s how you and I “met” at Dougie’s place. I don’t even remember what I wrote or what your criticism was so it must not have been a real biggie. But now we’ve become pretty good friends, so I guess that exercise was worth it for both of us!

I *think* what I would recommend is that we just post our pieces and neither encourage nor discourage criticism.
I know we hate “rules”, and I sure do. But we don’t “critique” each other’s photos except in the positive and I don’t know why we would treat written submissions any differently, but some will. Personally I will praise pieces I think are good and stay quiet about the ones I don’t like. I am not qualified to critique the writing of others anyway, so what would be gained, except to cause ill feelings and discourage anyone else from sending their work into a meat grinder?

George, if I went to hear your band and I thought you sucked, I wouldn’t tell you that, just out of friendship and respect. I’d probably say something like “Hell of a show!”, but not “Great music!” If you *asked* me specifically about the music I’d just try to comment on the good things, then the specific criticism, then close with something good again. Like the old “shit sandwich” technique for a problem employee. Compliment them, discuss the objectionable behavior, and then close with another compliment.

It’s not going to be a “Professional Writer’s Forum” where criticism is part of the formula so why do it. But if someone does I’ll try not to yell about it!

Yo' Bro,
Dave

[Dallara]

I like Ron's idea of a separate section of the site for a "Writer's Corner", away from the forum/board, especially if the contributions have to be in multiple parts (like my NR-500 story)... Why? Primarily for continuity.

When things like the NR piece have to be subbmitted in multiple parts poster's comments break up the *chapters* of the story and make it harder to follow in a way.

Besides, if a good story shows up in the "Writer's" section of the main site page then posters are going to comment on it over on the board/forum anyway... Maybe even start threads about a story and make their comments, critiques, etc. there. Personally I don't have anybody posting criticism about the writing style or content of a piece I write... What drove me nuts over on the *other* board was anonymous a**holes ignoring the content or writing style and simply complaining that a "Honda piece" had no place on a BMW forum and was a waste of bandwidth because of that...

If they had said something like "A Honda NR-500 story certainly should be an interesting one but the way you tell it makes it sound like a soap opera...", or some sort of valid criticism like that, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. After all, we all have different tastes in books, authors, movies, directors, etc. I expect valid criticism when I write something - and even welcome it. It makes me a better writer in my mind. I may not necessarily agree with the criticism, but it often gets me to thinking about how I might improve my *style* or structure. To me criticism is a *good* thing. If someone really doesn't *like* something I have written then I want to know about it. I don't want people to sugar-coat their comments to me. That's dishonest, duplictious, and superficial.

When I was teaching MX schools I tried to be *gentle* when I started out so as not to upset or discourage the students... Then two thngs happened almost simultaneously - One, my Father said something to me one day about how to handle employees, "Praise in public, criticize or chastise in private..." This was great advice around the workplace, to be sure. Second thing that happened was I was asked to assist at a Tony Distefano MX school (though Tony didn't need any help actually...). Tony took me aside at one point and told me I was doing the students any favors by not telling them what they were doing wrong. He said I needed to criticise them, and tell them exactly where and why they were making mistakes, He actually said "Don't sugar-coat it for them, because if you do they don't remember. Tell 'em straight!"

Both sets of advice stood me in good stead, but often I found that the best way to help someone was to tell them out loud, and in public, that they could do better, and why I thought so.

Writers, by definition, need a thick skin, and have to avoid taking criticism personally... event though when a writer is criticized it is always essentially *personal*. Remember that if someone has an honest, valid, and well structured criticism of your writing then at least the critic took the time to read the piece... And that is the highest form of praise a writer can get.

Just my two cents... YMMV.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara)

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

What drove me nuts over on the *other* board was anonymous a**holes ignoring the content or writing style and simply complaining that a "Honda piece" had no place on a BMW forum and was a waste of bandwidth because of that...

I agree Allan. That was very annoying. Frankly, I like bikes. I like reading about bikes, bikers and bike related topics.

Along those same lines, it would be pretty cool to have a "Bike Report" section where people who own, or have tested other different models of bikes could write a report on the experience.

Outside people looking in would certainly get good information from our reports on different bike models such as dave's Hoochi Mama, Allan's upcoming FJR, My MT-o1, Bones' GS1200, etc.

Just a thought.

[arkline]

"it would be pretty cool to have a "Bike Report" section where people who own, or have tested other different models of bikes could write a report on the experience."

I like this idea. As long as there isn't any slander or untoward bashing, it might be possible to add that into the MotoLit section.

[Promethean]

A possible guideline to avoid bashing/slander is...."write a report ONLY if you own it or have used it".

Just my 2 pfennigs.

-Abhijeet


"it would be pretty cool to have a "Bike Report" section where people who own, or have tested other different models of bikes could write a report on the experience."

I like this idea. As long as there isn't any slander or untoward bashing, it might be possible to add that into the MotoLit section.

[Tipstall]

Abhijeet,

Can we change this "Motorcyclist Café Forums - Powered by vBulletin" when you bookmark the page?

Ken

[Promethean]

Ken,
Sure. What do we want it to read? Just "Motorcyclist Café Forums"? Let me know.

Our license agreement requires us to keep atleast 1 Jelsoft/vBulletin copyright notice on the dynamic webpage.

-Abhijeet


Abhijeet,

Can we change this "Motorcyclist Café Forums - Powered by vBulletin" when you bookmark the page?

Ken

[Tipstall]

Why not use "Motorcyclist Café" to start with and if we want to change it further down the road we can.

Ken

[Promethean]

Ken,
Just a quick question, I take it that you want the title to keep changing depending upon the context of the forum.

As an example....the browser title changes to reflect where you are on the forum....e.g. while replying to a post, the title changes to "Motorcycle Cafe Forums - Reply to Topic". Do we want to get rid of that?

-Abhijeet


Why not use "Motorcyclist Café" to start with and if we want to change it further down the road we can.

Ken

[Dallara]

Ken,

I just edited out the "power by vBulletin" part when I bookmarked/added to favorites the board.

But I am with you... I don't know if that's what I want people to see when they come here and decide to bookmark the page. Maybe Abhijeet can think of a good place to place vBulletin's link/mention on the page without it being too obtrusive.

Thanks!

Allan (Dallara - Banned by R1150R-centric Boards Everywhere!)

[Promethean]

I'll see what other people have done and ask around on the support forum to see if it is acceptable.

-Abhijeet

Ken,

I just edited out the "power by vBulletin" part when I bookmarked/added to favorites the board.

But I am with you... I don't know if that's what I want people to see when they come here and decide to bookmark the page. Maybe Abhijeet can think of a good place to place vBulletin's link/mention on the page without it being too obtrusive.

Thanks!

Allan (Dallara - Banned by R1150R-centric Boards Everywhere!)

[Promethean]

Ken,
Done.

-Abhijeet


Why not use "Motorcyclist Café" to start with and if we want to change it further down the road we can.

Ken

[DarthRider]

I got in late on this and this is "wordsmithing" but I'd prefer "The Motorcyclist Cafe" rather than "Motorcycle Cafe".
It's a small things but the Gods - and the Devils - live in the details!

[Lance1150]

Some 'writers' will want opinions of their stuff, others won't... perhaps a code of some sort to let people know you desire, or don't mind, if people critique what you've written, and a code to let people know you don't want their critique (especially negative)....

CA= Critique appreciated
NCP= No critiques please

I just made those up, but there's probably some accepted codes used by writing sites... don't know.

Personally, I'm not asking for anyone to critique things I write, but I don't mind if people do, even if it's negative... I can take what I feel is valid, and ignore what I feel isn't... that's just me.

[fganger]

Notice where the ADVrider has the VBulletin - on the very bottom of the page.

Frank

[Promethean]

Frank,
Thanks. I'll check this. I think a single vBulletin/Jelsoft advert wouldn't be an eyesore. Why pay them for the privilige of removing their branding when the product works just the same? Yes. You have to pay them to remove EVERY occurance of vBulletin/Jelsoft!

-Abhijeet


Notice where the ADVrider has the VBulletin - on the very bottom of the page.

Frank

[Scottybooj]

allan, so are you going to finish the god damn nr-500 story?

[Dallara]

Yep, Scotty...

One of these days I will finish the NR-500 story, I promise.

However, as I explained on another thread here (and even back on the R1150R site when the story got waylaid there...) it will have to be when the time is right. You have to kind of be in a certain frame of mind to write something like that, particularly when you are doing it mostly from personal recollection. It has to sort of *flow out*... You can't force it.

I have slowly been gathering the necessary pictures back up so I can illustrate the story properly, and I saved the initial chapters from where I posted them on the other site. One of these days when I am in the *zone* again it will start to flow...

And then I'll be able to finish it. I hope you understand.

I honestly do wish I had gotten to finish it the first time. I had everything all there at the front of my mind, and I had the pictures, letters, race results, etc. all kennelled up... But what happened "over there" really soured it for me, and just killed the inspiration. It'll be back though... That's a good story, and one that should be told. It was one of the most unique and fascinating stories I have ever run across in all of motorcycling. If the bike had been a raging success everyone would know it, but because it just missed, and that Honda took it almost completely underground then, it is a story that has stayed below the radar.

I will say this... If it had ever been allowed to be fully developed, and various race sanctioning bodies hadn't been so scared of it (like they still are today, as witnessed by the recent FIA and FIM rules amendments outlawing oval pistons...) that they banned the concept before they even understood it... Well, then damn near all the true performance bikes you would be buying today would have oval pistons - Really.

And so would every MotoGP bike, World and AMA Superbike, and even Formula 1 race car would be powered by oval pistons.

Just for fun... Open your mind up a minute... And your imagination...

Picture a BMW Boxer flat twin, only picture it with slightly elongated cylinder heads, with the intakes on the top of the jugs and the exhaust on the bottom... Maybe with water-cooling... And the jugs wouldn't stick out quite so far... It might even use direct injection of fuel into the cylinders... And it would only displace maybe 1000 cc's...

But it would be making 160 to 180 horsepower and turn 14,000 RPM... Maybe even 16,000-18,000...

Be fun, wouldn't it? And believe it or not, the oval piston concept with its split rods is a perfect marriage with a flat boxer twin.

It would make the new R1200S look like a mini-bike on the dyno.

That's how much potential the oval piston concept held. But like all great ideas, it's not entirely gone... Just hibernating until the time is right, and the environment and atmosphere of competition is right to allow it to fully develop.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - Auto-Banned on New York R1150R-centric Boards Auto-matically)

[RiceBurner]

I'd like to see a Gallery forum because I want to use members pics for the front page on a random basis( ie random pic every time you open the page)