Need to buy - Gas Tank

[Bill]

My brother has a 78 Kawi 1000 that has crap in the gas tank. Are there any junk yards for this bike - any additive to put in the tank? He says the crud looks like Coffee Grinds. Any help greatly appreciated!

[Deans BMW]

Bill, have him put a bunch of BB's like an entire pkg of BB's in the tank with some solvent and shake the heck out of it. repeate until it is clean, get the two part Kreem treatment and treat following the directions.

[DarthRider]

I'd use acetone with nuts & bolts...sounds like you need heavy duty for that!
Or...if he can find an amenable radiator shop they could vat it...smooth as a baby's butt!
Either way, Kreeme it for sure. It's a big PITA but is the way to go.

Or...our Donson might have one.

[isiahstites]

My brother has a 78 Kawi 1000 that has crap in the gas tank. Are there any junk yards for this bike - any additive to put in the tank? He says the crud looks like Coffee Grinds. Any help greatly appreciated!

North County Motorcycle Salvage in Escondido, Ca will more than likely have a tnak for the bike.

Radiator shop is the best way and there is a better way to line it as well. I can't remember if the radiator shop does it or not but its a good dam seal. This stuff will not peel off in time like the Kreem stuff will.

I will do some checking around for you.

Scott

[Bill]

Thanks every body - will let you know what he does - the radiator shop sounds best to me.

Thanks again

[DarthRider]

This stuff will not peel off in time like the Kreem stuff will.


Scotty, I Kreemed my old Norton in 1981 and it was still 100% when I sold it 4 years ago. No voids, flakes or pits. And I know of a number more like that.
It's like a paint job, it's all in the preparation. Most guys won't devote a weekend to sloshing a tank, or sit there for hours knocking the rust out of it!
It's a PITA.

[DarthRider]

Scotty, I was just thinking...all my experience with Kreeme (several tanks) was before they turned our gas to shite.
Maybe something in the gas now, maybe alcohol, has changed the results.
New & better things come along all the time, but I would want to know more before I switched from a known performer. I wouldn't think Kreeme would be standing still with their formulation...they sell a LOT of that stuff!

[isiahstites]

Dave my experience with a lot of the chopper guys and a few guys I have raced with is that they usually end up with bits and particles of the stuff clogging up the fuel system.

I painted a tank for a guy a few years ago and it had an pretty cool looking sealant in it that looked like it would last forever, it was red in color.

I think this was done at a radiator shop. Look inside the filler neck.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/isiahstites/Chopper%20Paint/100_4334.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/isiahstites/Chopper%20Paint/100_4335.jpg

Scott

[DarthRider]

Kreme is white, not at all like that tank lining.
I only know what I know Scott, we did a lot of them at the BMW shop where I worked, never had a come back. Plus the ones I did on my own.
I wouldn't let a radiator shop seal a tank, only vat it & steam the crap out. Maybe that was the problem?

[isiahstites]

Kreme is white, not at all like that tank lining.
I only know what I know Scott, we did a lot of them at the BMW shop where I worked, never had a come back. Plus the ones I did on my own.
I wouldn't let a radiator shop seal a tank, only vat it & steam the crap out. Maybe that was the problem?

Well Dave as you know, there are many ways to skin a cat. I am not saying that the Kreme doesn't work for extended periods of time. I am saying I have seen instances on several ocassions where it has clogged fuel system components.

Scott

[isiahstites]

Read about it here.......it wasn't a radiator shop after all.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RED-KOTE-FUEL-TANK-LINER-1-QUART-/190411997693?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c557081fd

[DarthRider]

"Kreem" is an actual brand of tank lining material, the only one I'd recommend based on experience. They've been making this since at least the 70's. Only use the kits, not just the liner material!

To be clear: I would recommend having the tank vatted & cleaned at a radiator shop if it is to be re-painted. Then "slosh" it with a Kreem kit *before* painting.
Or, if you want to keep the original paint: Get the Kreem kit and use the nuts, bolts & solvent method to clean the interior.

CAVEAT: I have never had a gas tank vatted. I hear it is fine, but I always use the tried & true nuts & bolts to get the rust out.


Lots of info & "how-to's" here:
http://www.kreemproducts.net/p-17-kreem-combo-pak.aspx

http://www.kreemproducts.net/wolthuis.aspx?productid=17&size=large

[Griffon]

Last week I went to a place about an hour's ride form me called Larry's. The place is restoration Nirvana, and could be a reason to trailer a bike and bring a truck for any of you so inclined when you visit. I saw only a fraction of what the guy has, but I intend to head back to get a more thorough tour soon.

As to Dave's thoughts on prep and Kreem, I couldn't agree more. Set it up carefully as can be and give it the time it deserves and you should have no problems later! Very few folks have the time or inclination to do it that way, but the rewards are worth it. It's a shame most of us lead lives that don't allow for giving nearly anything it's due.

[DarthRider]

OK Mr. Griffon, when we descend on you one of these days not too far off, I will expect a full tour of that resto shop. I love those places!

[jamming]

I've done many a tank with Kreem sealant. Did you know MEK (methyl Ethel ketone) will dissolve it? Yup! I'm with Dave, prep is the key. I've never sent a tank to a radiator shop either but those of you that know me know it was clean before I started. I always used BB's and jet fuel with a bit of Prist.

I would bet that the additives they are putting in fuel now a days have something to do with Kreem failing to stick, but it's an opinion as I have no empirical data.

[isiahstites]

Google Kreem Failure and see what you find.............sure there are lots of guys saying that maybe the prep was not correct, however are all of these guys that incompetent that they can not install a gas tank liner properly?

Decide for yourself. I know I will never use Kreem in one of my bike builds.

MEK Roger was talking about

http://www.randakks.com/TechTip57.htm


http://www.bmwmoga.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1815


http://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/discuss/read.php?f=1&i=854186&t=853265&v=f


Kreem -Red-Kote - Por-15
http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=4638.0



Poor prep equal failure
http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-12128.html

[Donson]

I have a tank for that bike. But, it is attached to a bike.....Wes has several. I have used Kreem and had good luck, but it is a pain to do the prep. I have had a number of bikes,including a KZ1000 where the prep work was not done properly, and it was a continual debris in the fuel battle. Wes turned Me onto an organic chemical that is THE CATS ASS for fuel tanks. RUSTECO Google it. I bought 4 gallons. It is totally organic. After use, a rusty tank will be smooth and shiny inside, and it is re-usable. It does not repair leaks or pinholes, but preps the inside of the tank for repair, or can just be used to clean the tank. Eventually, it wears out, and You can pour it on You yard, it is SO inert!

[Donson]

Ah yes....MEK. Great stuff. They didnt tell Us in the old days how bad that shit is for You. In the Helicopter business we washed our hands in it, and tools. Someday, not too soon I hope, I will have to explain to St. Peter why My liver is chock full of MEK. Seems it goes to Your liver and stays there, waiting. I am attempting to do a beer-flush on My liver, results pending.

[DarthRider]

Good grief.

Scot I took the time to read all that "Internet Wisdom" you linked and it seems the common thread is that "Kreem is garbage". "Unless it is properly applied".
I guess you could say the same thing about Ditzler paints or Redwing boots.

This is from your first link. This guy at least seems to know what he's talking about:

Kreem is a decent product. I've used it successfully on numerous occasions. The usual challenge is to follow the elaborate instructions carefully and completely. Inadequate prep results in the typical failure: the plastic lining's adhesion will fail and the coating will separate from the inner surface of the tank. This makes for a huge headache!

I'm sure there are other products & methods that are fine, maybe just as good, maybe better.
But the "evidence" you presented like a pic of a different product failing, and all the Internet Experts saying Kreem is no good unless you read & follow the directions is not very compelling.
Personally I'd rather listen to the many restoration shops & independent experts I know who have used Kreem for years with no (known) failures. And my own experience. To drop a few of those names...Big "D" Cycle, Perry's Custom Cycles & Sidecars, Ralph Delmar (built my Norton & BMW engines), Herb Harris (owner of Rollie Free Vincent). I could go on...but why?

Do what you want on your bike builds.
Me? When I have the KLR tank painted as part of the upcoming project I will first closely inspect for rust & corrosion. If I find any I will Kreem the tank myself, carefully and 100% according to the rather important directions.

[isiahstites]

Dave your "good grief" comment is exactly how I felt when you posted up your link about Kreem.

A person posted up about his tank and wanting advice. Are we all not allowed to offer up our findings?

I have found and seen first hand bad "kreem" jobs, I felt it necessary to point this out and that there was another way to do things. He could then do the research on his own and make a decision on his own. I provided an example of another way of doing things, so don't get your panites in a wad because I do not agree with the way you do things.

[DarthRider]

This is what you said Scot.

This stuff will not peel off in time like the Kreem stuff will.


This horse is way dead...

[isiahstites]

:)

[JCsman]

Ah yes....MEK. Great stuff. They didnt tell Us in the old days how bad that shit is for You. In the Helicopter business we washed our hands in it, and tools. Someday, not too soon I hope, I will have to explain to St. Peter why My liver is chock full of MEK. Seems it goes to Your liver and stays there, waiting. I am attempting to do a beer-flush on My liver, results pending.

Atta boy, Donson, fight fire with fire.

In the asphalt testing business we used to use what we called tri-chlor (tri-chlor-methalyne? Don't recall for sure). It stripped the asphalt right out of a road sample leaving sand and graded aggregate that we could test. Surprisingly enough it turns out it isn't good for you. Plus guys would dump the liquids behind the test trailer. Spreading the wealth as it were. Ahhhh.... good times.

[Rchop]

Bill, I have used various products in the past with good results if proper prep was done. A lot of today's fuels have methanol additives, especially in modern race fuels that I am required to use in the "gas class" on the track. I did some research on methanol resistant sealants and I found this product that is probably the easiest applied tank sealant I have ever used. It covers thicker than other products I have used and cures faster too! The mechanical strength of this product seem to exceed other products I have used.

http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

[jamming]

Ah yes....MEK. Great stuff. They didnt tell Us in the old days how bad that shit is for You. In the Helicopter business we washed our hands in it, and tools. Someday, not too soon I hope, I will have to explain to St. Peter why My liver is chock full of MEK. Seems it goes to Your liver and stays there, waiting. I am attempting to do a beer-flush on My liver, results pending.

We used MEK to dissolve the glue when we had to remove and replace the de-ice boots on the leading edges of wings. Nasty, nasty stuff. Almost as nasty as Methyl Chloride also known as aircraft paint stripper. We used to spray it on and hose it off. I still will use MEK when its required as a solvent, but I'm wearing an approved respirator, face shield, appropriate gloves and a tyvek suit.

[Donson]

At the "old " Bell Helicopter, We had a lot of Vietnamese workers, in the sheet metal shops. When they would get a cut, or scratch, they would pour MEK onto, or into, the wound. Today, the only solvent approved for general use on the shop floor is Rubbing Alcohol. I also use mainly rubbing alcohol in My shop, but I do have MEK, and some other solvents locked away in the cabinet.

[Griffon]

OK Mr. Griffon, when we descend on you one of these days not too far off, I will expect a full tour of that resto shop. I love those places!


Dave, I planned this as a "must stop" for you awhile back! I have a few others as well. Perhaps it would be wise to send the girls on a shopping expedition of their own when we take a trip to Larry's!

[DarthRider]

Dave, I planned this as a "must stop" for you awhile back! I have a few others as well. Perhaps it would be wise to send the girls on a shopping expedition of their own when we take a trip to Larry's!

Yes, send them shopping but we keep the credit cards...I might get that Vincent I've always wanted!

[Griffon]

I might have a different Vincent source... Larry's is more likely to yield vintage Japanese objects of interest. For British, we take a trip to visit Westy. In any event, I'm sure you'll have fun!

[DarthRider]

Oh yeah, I love 'em all...let's hit 'em all!

[Deans BMW]

I seem to remember that we used MEK or was it some other wonderful solvent in our Vapor Degreasers.

[Bill]

Progress - my Brother took the tank to a Radiator shop this morning - they will steam clean - then give it an overnight bath in acid - pick it up in the am - we found a can of Red-Kote at O Rileys for $22.50 - Radiator shop $42.00 and all is well. Thanks every body for your input!

[DarthRider]

Bill -
Be sure to report back at 1, 2, 5, 10 & 20 years!

[Bill]

Will do Dave - the decision was my Brothers - he used your recomendation on Soda Blasting - Worked well - Let me see now Report Aug 2011, Aug 1 2012, Aug 1 2015, Aug 1 1020 and final report Aug 1 2030. Dave I am 71 years young - I might miss the 5, 10 and 20 years reports. Thanks anyway - hope it works.

[DarthRider]

Dave I am 71 years young - I might miss the 5, 10 and 20 years reports. Thanks anyway - hope it works.

OK, so we'll be a couple of old farts, then REAL old farts posting back forth, works for me!

[JCsman]

I might miss the 5, 10 and 20 years reports.

Why? Cause you'll be out riding?

Man, you sure plan further in advance that I do.

[Bill]

Why? Cause you'll be out riding?
Man, you sure plan further in advance that I do.
Let's just say - I am not in the best of health - but enjoying each day I have - Still want to do my trip to Baja that I plannded for last October - instead I did Utah with Dave and Anita, made it back to Den's B&B - had to get Ms Pam to run me into town for a blood test. Rode on back to Big Bend - and then another 650 miles back home.

[DarthRider]

[QUOTE=Bill;109229]Let's just say - I am not in the best of health - but enjoying each day I have - [QUOTE]

Yeah, but you're an ornery ol' SOB too and that alone is worth +10 years!:028: