Police office hits motorcyclist

[isiahstites]

http://www.kvue.com/news/Police-release-video-of-officer-hitting-motorcyclist-97694484.html

[Pacific]

Trust no one.

Jay

[Tassie Devil]

Nothing to see here.....
Move along....

Cheers,

JQ

[Sir Limpsalot]

From the title I thought he'd punched him, or hit him with his night stick!

Using a car as an offensive weapon is plainly no longer the exclusive province of the public..

Si.

[jamming]

DAMN!!! According to the report the rider is in good condition so that's a plus. However, NO disiplinary action was taken against the officer. WTF OVER!!!!! I understand mistakes happen, but he at least needs a couple days off without pay or an annotion in his record.

If you or I did it we would get a ticket...am I right?

[DarthRider]

I wouldn't let the cop off Scot-free either, but the old boy who got smacked must assume the lion's share of the responsibility.
He "allowed himself" to be taken out. It didn't look like he even turned his head or saw the cop car.

[isiahstites]

It says in the article that police are allowed to use electronic devices while driving, a big BS on that! It also says he rolled through the stop sign, big negative on that he never even saw the stop sign as he never slowed for it, another big BS!

[isiahstites]

The problem with these goverment agencys is that if they say he was wrong and screwed up they open themselves up to even more liabilty. So they do everything they can to protect the officer, however you can bet your ass that cop is taking a ton of heat behind closed doors.

[Damocles]

Along these lines . . .

Riding along suburban residential streets, I saw a teen-aged boy mowing a lawn, pushing his mower ahead of him . . . as I drew nearer, I noticed . . . he was TEXTING, as he mowed!

At least, no motorists were threatened by his multi-tasking; not sure I could say the same about his TOES!

--------------------------------

DarthRider, you place a high bar and a heavy burden upon the "old" guy, who had the right-of-way and was blind-side T-boned by the cruiser running a stop sign . . . prima facie, I see no contributory negligence on the motorcyclist's part; YMMV!

(BTW, 74 ain't "OLD!")

[DarthRider]

--------------------------------

DarthRider, you place a high bar and a heavy burden upon the "old" guy, who had the right-of-way and was blind-side T-boned by the cruiser running a stop sign . . . prima facie, I see no contributory negligence on the motorcyclist's part; YMMV!

(BTW, 74 ain't "OLD!")

Yes, my results *do* vary! I'm not on the cop's side on this, he is "responsible" in both the legal and ethical sense.
But the rider did not do his job...the cop was not running 80 or even 20 MPH, he "rolled" through the intersection, relatively easy to see.
It's the rider's job & responsibility to stay alive, you can not depend on a cop or anyone else to do that for you...the buck stops here. It was the rider's job & responsibility to see the rolling cop and take appropriate action, not hit or get hit. He failed in that, that much is his fault.
"...contributory negligence..." as you say, and "responsibility" as I said are two very different critters.
I'm not saying the rider got what was coming to him, I am saying he allowed himself to get hit. The graveyards are full of people who "had the right of way", the most irrelevant & dangerous term in motorcycling.
Yes, the bar is high and the burden is heavy...if we want to stay alive and not just accept a continuous "rolling of the dice" as a safety strategy, depending on luck and non-negligence on the part of others.
This is not coming from theory, but surviving 53 years' riding experience as of my birthday last week, when I turned 67. 74 may not be "OLD" but it ain't a spring chicken either!

[panthercity]

I do NOT want to be dead right!

[Damocles]

Yes, my results *do* vary! I'm not on the cop's side on this, he is "responsible" in both the legal and ethical sense.
But the rider did not do his job...the cop was not running 80 or even 20 MPH, he "rolled" through the intersection, relatively easy to see.
It's the rider's job & responsibility to stay alive, you can not depend on a cop or anyone else to do that for you...the buck stops here. It was the rider's job & responsibility to see the rolling cop and take appropriate action, not hit or get hit. He failed in that, that much is his fault.
"...contributory negligence..." as you say, and "responsibility" as I said are two very different critters.
I'm not saying the rider got what was coming to him, I am saying he allowed himself to get hit. The graveyards are full of people who "had the right of way", the most irrelevant & dangerous term in motorcycling.
Yes, the bar is high and the burden is heavy...if we want to stay alive and not just accept a continuous "rolling of the dice" as a safety strategy, depending on luck and non-negligence on the part of others.
This is not coming from theory, but surviving 53 years' riding experience as of my birthday last week, when I turned 67. 74 may not be "OLD" but it ain't a spring chicken either!

I see your point. The motorcyclist was definitely responsible for the accident, as you say.

[Donson]

Dave is old.

[DarthRider]

I see your point. The motorcyclist was definitely responsible for the accident, as you say.
I don't really think he was responsible for the accident per se, I'd give that to the cop, but certainly for his own personal safety.


Dave is old.
Wanta race?:028:

[Griffon]

Great points Dave. Right is irrelevant when we're on the roads. I give right of way to imbeciles on a daily basis. I am more than happy to see them off where they can no longer impinge upon my ability to safely reach my destination.

[MilesAway]

reminds me of an incident here where a pedestrian standing on street corner got hit and was seriously injured by the side mirror of a city bus. Lots of news coverage on the design of the bus, the training/experience/state of awareness of the driver etc. None of the journalists asked the simple question of what the heck the pedestrian was up to that they didn't notice a city bus bearing down on them, a city bus - loud engine, squeaky brakes, huge. I'm with Dave on this one. Maybe people just get confused about the difference between fault and responsibility. In my view the cop is clearly at fault but the biker is responsible.

[Damocles]

Given the motorcyclist was responsible for getting hit by the police car running the stop sign, what countermeasures (e.g., stopping, swerving into oncoming traffic lane) should the bike rider employed to avoid the collision?

Stopped in bright afternoon sunlight for a red light last week in my car with my unladen motorcycle trailer in tow (with tail, running, and rear marker lights ablaze, plus flashing left-turn signal light, plus blaze-orange angle iron horizontally across rear, plus red-and-white reflective "conspicuosity" tape around the deck), I was rear-ended by a lady driving a pickup truck.

I was "responsible" for the collision, because . . . my trailer was so low to the ground she did not see it beneath her pickup hood, after she had stopped behind me . . .

May install some dune-buggy flags in hope of making the trailer more visible.

[DarthRider]

Given the motorcyclist was responsible for getting hit by the police car running the stop sign, what countermeasures (e.g., stopping, swerving into oncoming traffic lane) should the bike rider employed to avoid the collision?


Don't know, wasn't there.
A good place to start would be to - always - expect that car approaching the intersection will not stop and will kill you.
After that, it's just running down the "Personal Responsibility" checklist of alternatives and taking appropriate action.
I prefer dune-buggy flags myself...:)


"If you ride a motorcycle often, you will be killed riding it. That much is as sure as night follows day. Your responsibility is to be so vigilant and careful as to push that eventuality so far forward that you die of old age first"

- Wise Author Unknown

[BobFV1]

The motorcyclist in this accident was no more responsible for being hit than the group that was plowed into by a dump truck in Phoenix recently. The cop was inattentive, distracted, and did not have the legal right of way. It could well be that, seeing that it was a marked unit, the motorcyclist expected him to stop at the stop sign.

[DarthRider]

Horse hockey.

[Donson]

The injured rider was not riding defensively. Had He been riding defensively, He would have anticipated the cars intrusion into His space.

[BobFV1]

They are called "accidents" for a reason.

[isiahstites]

From the video you can not tell whether the motorcylist saw him or not. Maybe he did see him and did everything to avoid him i.e. swirve and begin to stop, but it was to late.

If I learned anything this week in my life I learned that what you always see isn't whats always there.

Scott

[DarthRider]

From the video you can not tell whether the motorcylist saw him or not.

OK.

Then let's assume he was a good rider, did see the rolling cop and did everything he could to avoid him. And got hit.
Now let's assume he was a lousy rider, not paying attention, did not see the cop and did nothing to avoid him. And got hit.
Now let's assume he was an average rider, his actions/reactions were somewhere - anywhere - in the middle. And he got hit. That's probably where the truth lies, but we don't really know.

But let's not stop there...

What can we learn from those scenarios? What can we apply in our own thinking & riding to avoid having something similar happen to us? Nothing? Something? A lot?
What would we have cautioned Ol' Grand Dad about that morning before he went for a ride and got hit by a rolling cop, if we knew then what we know now? Plenty I'd wager.
Or would we just have smiled and said, "Good luck Gramps, I hope you don't have an accident today!"

I'll exaggerate to make a point but I do not believe in "accidents" when it comes to motorcycle safety, the exceptions proving the rule. As in this case, I believe.
He - could - have - done - something to come out of that better than he did, almost certainly. And we must believe that! In my opinion anyway.

To believe otherwise deprives us of any learning from his mishap and possibly avoiding something similar. And something else even more dangerous than that...it feeds a mindset that accidents are inevitable and can't be avoided or mitigated...they just happen. They are just accidents.

"What happened to Gramps, Dad?"
"Oh, he got killed in a motorcycle accident. Too bad, but you can't do anything about those you know!"
"OK, well I'm going for a ride with my buds now, I sure hope I don't have an accident today!"

I don't believe in fate, destiny, when your number is up, it's up, or accidents.
If I did I would not ride motorcycles. Or ever leave the house for that matter.

[BobFV1]

Looked like an accident to me. Car rolls through stop sign and hits you. Happens every day. That's why they call them accidents.

[DarthRider]

Looked like an accident to me. Car rolls through stop sign and hits you. Happens every day. That's why they call them accidents.

You seem most concerned over what to call it.
I couldn't care less what label you want to put on it, I'm only interested in what we can learn from it to stay alive under similar circumstances.
I'm really surprised at the attitude you are taking towards this?!

[isiahstites]

Dave I understand your points and what your intention is with all of this is, but sometimes there are just accidents that you never see coming and that you can not do anything about, sometimes they are unavoidable. Agree or disagree its the truth.

Scott

[DarthRider]

Agree or disagree its the truth.


Scotty, there's something I'd like to ask you to do, and I really hope you will.
Go out to your garage and look at the picture you keep in your tankbag window.
Then tell me something like this deserves only a quick, easy, pat answer like "it's just an accident".

There's your "truth"...

[isiahstites]

Scotty, there's something I'd like to ask you to do, and I really hope you will.
Go out to your garage and look at the picture you keep in your tankbag window.
Then tell me something like this deserves only a quick, easy, pat answer like "it's just an accident".

There's your "truth"...

Dave if you only knew what the hell I have been through this week..........

[DarthRider]

Dave if you only knew what the hell I have been through this week..........

Whatever it is Scotty, I hope it gets much better, very soon.
Hang in Bro...