Leather Pants

[DarthRider]

OK, who wants to help with a totally unofficial FirstGear marketing question?

How many of you prefer leather road-riding pants to textile, assuming cost, fit, quality, armor are equal? Let's say in the cool/cold weather months to take mesh out of the equation. Touring? Sports touring? Sport?

How many would buy a pair of quality leather pants (assuming the above) if you could get them in "Short" sizes? (Remember, if you're average height - like me - but have a 'bit of a tummy' - like me - you can get a good fit by ordering your waste size in Short).

If anyone wants to turn this into a general disussion of leather vs textile, please feel free...Iwould love to hear what this bunch of experienced (and inexperienced), outspoken riders have to say about that.

After we get comments and the thread dies down I'll tell you why I'm asking. Not being coy, just don't want to influence any responses.

Thanks!

Dave

[Deans BMW]

I have always liked leather, but I don't think that I have any, anymore, all textile. I would love to get a good set of leathers again.

Not much help to your question, I'm afraid. :028:

[Dallara]

I'd be game...

Probably more for a set of leather pants than a jacket. That said, I must say I have gone almost entirely to textile stuff myself... Just because of the ever-present hot and muggy weather we have here in South Texas. I only have a couple or three leather jackets now, and I honestly cannot remember when the last time I wore one on the bike was.

Leather pants might be another matter entirely. I haven't actually owned any leather pants since my Roger DeCoster replica Torsten Hallman MX leathers 30 years ago. Only leathers (other than jackets) since then have been one-piece road race suits. I can see wearing some good quality, good fitting, reasonably priced leather pants with textile jackets in mid-range weather.

Yeah, I'd probably be game ot give 'em a try.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NACD)

[Gord]

I only have one pair of riding pants - Alpinestar Drystar pants. And they are superb. Waterproof. The zip out lining is toasty warm on the cold days. And they were a good value. I definitely like the textiles. My two jackets (Alpinestar and BMW Club Jacket) are textile and again I particularly like the Alpinestar for its waterproofness and its rather toasty zip out lining. So textile has been a very good and comfortable value for me.

But one pair of riding pants is not enough, especially with my two week trot to Newfoundland this June. I am torn between getting black leather pants and getting some Camo Draggin Cargo Pants. I have not priced leather yet. The Draggins would run me C$189 + 8% tax + $17 shipping i.e. C$221.12. So I am torn as to whether I should go leather or textile for my next pair of pants.

[GPM]

I have a pair of First Gear leather pants. I like the fit (just the opposite, need the tall size), and the comfort of leather. However I hardly ever wear them anymore.

I've found that Draggin Jeans with First Gear Mesh Overpants are more practical. I can zip in the liner for cooler weather or rain, and remove and stow the overpants and be walking around in jeans. With upgraded armour in the overpants and the kevlar in the jeans, I don't feel I'm giving up much in the way of protection.

[DJ Down Under]

I am torn between getting black leather pants and getting some Camo Draggin Cargo Pants.
I have both and wear the Draggin's 90% of the time...but we have a few weeks of winter coming up so I might wear the leathers then because they're warmer.

If I was to buy a new pair I'd try textile's next time.

DJ

[arkline]

I might be interested if the entrance/exit process were made quick and easy. I hate struggling to get my FirstGear HT overpants on over my boots while standing first on one foot then the other in a light rain, leaned up against the bike, while tons of folk walk by and make rude remarks about the stupid bike rider. My "Stich is the easiest thing to get on and off that I've ever had (and frankly, if I lost twenty pounds, it would be even easier. I wouldn't be getting in my own way as much.) I really like the neck to left ankle zipper and the knee to right ankle zipper. Easy, peasy, lemon squeezy. I'm not sure how practical leather would be here in the wet, but I do believe that leather is more protective of road rashery than textile is. If it is cumbersome to get on, I'd probably leave it at home or in a side case, unless I was going some serious distance.

So, are you working on a design concept or is this product at market already?

[1MPH]

I would like a pair of leather riding pants, but I don't think it's fair to kill a whole herd of cows to do it. :embarassed:

[Gord]

I would like a pair of leather riding pants, but I don't think it's fair to kill a whole herd of cows to do it. :embarassed:

Tell you what, you take the hide. I'll take the steaks and roasts!

Cows were made to be killed!

[Bones]

Darth,
Interesting that you should ask at this particular time: two days after I have just ordered a pair of First Gear Leather Touring pants. I ordered them because I wanted a pair of leather pants in addition to my favorite leather pants: Vanson Traveler leather pants. The feature the First Gear has that may be handy is the leg side zippers, so you can get them on easier and.....get this.....have you ever faced HAVING to take a dump while on the road, but you are wearing motorcycle boots and leathers. You can't get your knickers down far enough to let mother nature take its course!!!! So I thought the zippers would help.

Now, here is my concern: the comfort of the Vansons (once broken in a bit) is partly due to the fact that they are pretty tall rise. When sitting on the bike, a lower rise pant will want to pull down and away in the back, which is supremely uncomfortable. It looks like the FG pant is on the lower rise side of things, but we'll see when they come in. I am hoping the rise is OK.

I prefer leather pants for the protection and the fact that even in hot weather (when you know you are going to sweat no matter what), it is a lot more comfortable to sweat inside real leather than inside of textile. I have a pair of BMW Savanna pants that are great, but they have too low a rise and a narrower temp. range in which they are comfortable. When you sweat in leather, it may smell funny later, but when you sweat in textile, the sweat runs down your legs into your boot socks. I hate that feeling of rivulets of sweat on my legs.

I also have an Aerostich Roadcrafter suit that is fantastic, but it is one big bulky momma, and so, touring with it is a PIA....where do you put the damned thing when you want to go walk around or have a meal, or wear something lighter when it gets hot on a long trip?

Short sizes? I am 5'7" with a 30" inseam....bring it on! The FG leather pants have a length at the bottom that is unlined so guys like me can cut them shorter without ruining the pant.

So, will I like the FG pants I just ordered?
How we doing on the survey so far?

Jeff

[arkline]

" I also have an Aerostich Roadcrafter suit that is fantastic, but it is one big bulky momma,..."

Amen to that. The offset is that it wears really well in the damp, except your torrential downpours...

[BobFV1]

I like leather, I like the way it makes my dick look.

But I only wear leather on the track these days - everything else is textile for me, mostly BMW gear.

[Deans BMW]

Bob, you are a sick puppy.............

[marko]

I have always had leather pants and they feel fantastic.
I bought my first leather jacket two weeks ago - having always had textile jackets -
and now i feel sexy as well!:eusa_clap:

Seriously, it just feels great, so much so i will be wearing it all winter
to work while the bike stays home..........
I like the classic look of the leather jacket paired with black draggin jeans on the
black BMW..........ooohh stop it, your making me horny.........

[Wild Will]

I no longer wear my leather pants, custom made jobs that fit like the proverbial glove. They are heavy and hot; I mucg prefer vented synthetic riding pants. Today I rode a nasty, twisted 80 mile backroad foray back to my rural hacienda from my nearest city. It was raining, as it has been doing for far too long here, and I wore my much loved Aerostich. Warm, dry and well protected, this has been my poreferred riding gear for many years. I have 1 and 2 piece suits. In seconds I'm in my street clothes when I stoop for a break or a meal on a ride. Very convenient and very protective. Probably the best piece of riding gear I own, although I have a BMW Airflow suit and a BMW Paris/ Dakar suit sent to me by a pal in Germany; it was never imported they tell me. Aerostich rules! So do the modern rubber compounds that laugh at the rain in the twisties!

[Promethean]

I was at the dealer's drooling over the ProRace jacket and pants. The sticker price damn near killed me though! :104:

Although, with some people wearing leather, it can look very :ymca:

[Ed K]

Always leather pants with extensive armor & padding (knee, hip, tailbone, shin), except when its too hot --> then BMW summer pants with armor including extra purchased hip pad inserts.

[R1150R in Africa]

I'm a little embarrased to admit that I have neither - I have ridden in standard jeans up till now but, while back in SA for the next 3 weeks, I plan to buy myself a pair of Draggin jeans..... finally. My one concern, as always, will be the length of them as I am, like a lot of you by the sounds of it, blessed with very short legs ! Maybe I can get them tailored.

As for leather pants, I know that they are the better option, but I just cannot see myself in a pair. I still think that on most people they really look dorkus !! :eusa_shifty:

[LesKoh]

Draggin's are a compromise insofar as ATGATT goes, but definitely much better than plain ol' Levis. Be careful with the sizing if you're ordering online as I've had some problems in the past - what I've got now are a 34 in the Classic, 32 in the Sports Comfort, 36 in the Traffic ??? Best if you're able to try them in a store as the different models are cut differently. That aside, they're very comfortable and look great on and off the bike. Oh, almost forgot, they can be easily altered for length too! :)

[JCsman]

I like leather, I like the way it makes my dick look.

But I only wear leather on the track these days - everything else is textile for me, mostly BMW gear.

Note to self:

Avoid track days with Bob.

[DJ Down Under]

Re the Draggin' jeans...(sorry Dave)

I'm a 34" waist...I planned to buy 36" but ended up buying 38" and they're a perfect fit..(my camo cargo's)

Not long ago I ordered some new traffic's..again I ordered 38" and had then made about 4" longer so when seated they are a good length.

So don't be afraid to buy at least one if not two sizes bigger...and if you order them from Oz you get better quality and much more Kevlar.

DJ

[BobFV1]

I was at the dealer's drooling over the ProRace jacket and pants. The sticker price damn near killed me though! :104:

Although, with some people wearing leather, it can look very :ymca:

Abhijeet - I agree, the ProRace stuff is gorgeous, but it makes Roadcrafter gear look cheap! Most of the time in town I wear BMW "Summer" pants - I have the beige ones but might get black as well. I also have BMW Venting Machine pants and Savanna II pants - those three pairs, lust my First Gear HT overpants, fit just about every requirement I have, real or imagined, except track day.

I am wearing an older pair of Hein Gericke two piece "Rallye" track leathers now, waiting for the day that my very nice HJC one piece suit that I bought from a buddy who is an AMA racer and only wore them for Daytona qualifying one time - fit me again. I'm sure that will eventually happen.

Note to self - lay off the Cold Stone... But seriously, I think "leather" is much less "forgiving" for our more "mature" demographic.

[Arby]

I have Teknic texiles with zip out liner, the wife has Zero Gravity with zip out liner. Both have hip pads and knee cups.
we are both very pleased with them.
If it's cold and we know we're gonna be on the bike all day, we zip in the liners. If we're gonna stop and be off the bike awhile, we wear jeans and leave out the liners. In warmer weather we wear 'em without liner or jeans.

Thank God, we haven't had to crash test 'em, but they've been put to the test sporttouring wise, and passed. Including riding in heavy rain.

Next purchase will probably be vented overpants with zipout liner.

Judy has a really nice Vanson leather jacket, that fits and looks great. But since I gave her a Kilmanjaro as a gift, the Vanson hardly gets worn now.

For jackets, I have a Teknic and a Kilmanjaro. Am happy with both.



I believe we'll be buying texiles from here on.

Bob

[jamais]

Always leather pants with extensive armor & padding (knee, hip, tailbone, shin), except when its too hot --> then BMW summer pants with armor including extra purchased hip pad inserts.

Ed, would you buy the BMW Summer pants again? I've got a pair of Fieldsheer Titanium vented pants which are pretty good for Houston's hot/humid weather but of course they are black and I look like I just came off of the track.

So, while at BMW North, I tried on a pair of Summer Pants and they fit me really well. They seem to be cool (weather wise) but of course you have to buy before you try. The cost was reasonable, considering its a BMW product.

[BobFV1]

would you buy the BMW Summer pants again? I've got a pair of Fieldsheer Titanium vented pants which are pretty good for Houston's hot/humid weather but of course they are black and I look like I just came off of the track.

I'd buy the Summer pants agian, but I am in a "dry heat" in AZ (when I'm not in DC). The Summer pants, while lightweight and sturdy, are not vented, so they may be less comfortable than mesh pants in the humidity - but they do look great off the bike, ie, they don't look like "biker gear".

Hope that helps.

[jamais]

Thanks Bob, short of riding neked, nothing will beat Houston's sauna.

[Road Dog]

All my leather has been retired/given away, not primarily due to shrinkage but lack of versitility in the heat at the gates of hell where we ride for most of the year. I love leather, I've been tempted to buy more but it just doesn't make sense for riding in Paradise.

Goretex is the way to go when it is hot and also works well for the two weeks when it is not hot. Shorts and a tee shirt and an occasional stop to hose down from head to toe under the riding gear makes riding in the heat almost enjoyable. The evaporative cooling is great. I've worn out one Roadcrafter and now use First Gear for the value/features.

Sorry, I wouldn't buy the leather pants.

Bill

[fnfalman]

SoCal climate is pretty amenable so I wear leather pants to go with leather jacket for the bulk of the year. I switch to mesh pants and of course mesh jacket for the summer. The mesh jacket used to be the FirstGear MeshTex but I already bought the BMW Airflow II. I would have preferred the Venting Machine but the Airflow II was on the bargain rack. The mesh pants is FirstGear HT Mesh overpants. I'll keep that one when I ride to work and wear over my work pants but I think that I'll buy the BMW Venting Machine pants for regular riding. I trust cordura for abrasion resistance better than I trust cheap nylon mesh.

[Promethean]

I'm obsessed with getting the ProRace suit. The jacket retails at $700 and the dealer wouldn't try to work with me on the price so I guess Chicago BMW is the place I'd buy from (15% discount ordering over the web).

The Roadcrafter is pretty cool too but doesn't it leak at the crotch during downpours? Atleast that's what I heard.


Abhijeet - I agree, the ProRace stuff is gorgeous, but it makes Roadcrafter gear look cheap! Most of the time in town I wear BMW "Summer" pants - I have the beige ones but might get black as well. I also have BMW Venting Machine pants and Savanna II pants - those three pairs, lust my First Gear HT overpants, fit just about every requirement I have, real or imagined, except track day.

I am wearing an older pair of Hein Gericke two piece "Rallye" track leathers now, waiting for the day that my very nice HJC one piece suit that I bought from a buddy who is an AMA racer and only wore them for Daytona qualifying one time - fit me again. I'm sure that will eventually happen.

Note to self - lay off the Cold Stone... But seriously, I think "leather" is much less "forgiving" for our more "mature" demographic.

[Wild Will]

Bones,
Having ridden with a 'Stich for years now, leaving it on the bike is a piece of cake. I carry a small and strong cable lock with a combination lock built in, unzip one of the sleeve vents and cable-lock it to my bike. It covers either my tail pack (Marsee) or tank bag (Wolfman) and nobody's ever messed with it in the 12-odd years I've preferred a 'Stich riding suit.
Also, it is decidedly NOT bulky; leather is bulky. The 'Stich can be rolled into a small ball and placed in a very small nylon bag that Aerostich also sells (what an outstanding catalog, which I'm sure evertybody's seen!) and then cabled to the bike's wheel, stuffing the bag beneath the bike on the ground. Lots of options.
I wore mine again yesterday on an 80 mile rainy ride on the twistiest of roads these here Pacific ridges created in that Momma of all earthquakes so long ago!
I genuflect before Andy Goldfine, the suit's maker.

[supermotoC]

I have both, and it's leather all the WAY, baby!

The Gore-Texy stuff is great, but the feel & way the leather breathes is a better tactile feeling for riding & looking like I mean business. It's heavier, takes a little more maintenance, and wears MUCH better than textiles.

Roadracers/supermoto guys swear by leather, but the adventure/MX/cross-country guys are all textile. If absolute lightness/waterproof is your bag - go text. If absolute protection (ATGATT) is your concern, I lean towards leather (black, please).

[Bones]

Wild Will,
I will try the locking to the bike thing. Mine won't roll up because I have the armor in the knees, elbows, shoulders and back protector. I do love that suit, though. And you know what.....you never see an idiot riding in a one piece Aerostich Roadcrafter suit....except maybe me.


Bob,
You know,I am told that if the leathers are real tight in the waist, it makes your dick bigger.


Jeff

[Ed K]

Jamais...

I'd definitely buy the Summer pants again. In fact I chose them over the Venting Machine pants. (I have the Venting Machine jacket which is fantastic.) Venting machine pants prolly a little bit cooler but not much; meanwhile my wallet is a lot cooler with the Summer Pants... and still glad I made that decision.

They fit and wear great...reasonably priced...look great.

Get them in black...(light color will looks good for about an hour, until it quickly gets some smudges on it).

Also, you will pay extra for the hip protectors, but they're worth it, and not unreasonably priced.

Summer Pants also come with a full set extra buttons and hooks for the waist, if you lose one, or need to make some adjustments to add/move 'em around to fit you. (I had a shoemaker add one waist hook, at no cost!)

[jamais]

Thanks Ed, Summer pants it is, but I'm disappointed in your recommendation to buy the black ones. The tan looks so cool, both in style and temperature. I guess that explains why manufacturers insist on making most of these garments in dark colors. Bug splats probably show up big time.

[BobFV1]

Thanks Ed, Summer pants it is, but I'm disappointed in your recommendation to buy the black ones. The tan looks so cool, both in style and temperature. I guess that explains why manufacturers insist on making most of these garments in dark colors. Bug splats probably show up big time.

I think it's okay to go with beige - I wore them on a three thousand mile trip last Spring and they wore well and didn't look too shabby. Of course - I was riding my RT so the pants were completely protected by the fairing - depending on what you ride, YMMV.

[Bones]

Darth,
I just got my First Gear Leather pants. They are nice. But I do have a question. The leather is very soft and supple. Why do they not go with a slightly thicker leather? Is it a cost issue alone or something else? I have probably gotten spoiled by my Vansons, which are very thick and give me sense of protection. Perhaps the Vansons aren't more protective but I have been conditioned to think they are because the leather is thick and a bit stiffer (which I don't mind, but perhaps others do). And the knee protectors that came with them are...uh....interesting.

Any thoughts or insight?

Thanks.

Jeff

[DarthRider]

Bones -
Good questions.
You will see this all changing for the better starting very soon. All the FG line is being reviewed, new items being added, existing items retired or updated, a new "product version" naming protocol is in place for some already, (XX Pants Version 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, etc.) to designate a completely new item, or one newly updated. Like software.
Technical features are getting lots of attention with upgrades & redesigns in place with more coming. Good people are developing and managing the brand now.
I can't speak to your specific concerns but will pass them along to some guys who will understand and value your input and concern. Same with the "Leather pants" thread. Right now our MotoGP line is more technical but the FG line is becoming much more so.
That's really all I can say right now...more to follow!

Dave

[BobFV1]

Bones said "supple" ... he he, he he....