Help Guys - Need BMW New Bike Advice! [Archive]

BobFV1

04-01-2006, 08:59 PM

Here it is -

I was the top person on the list here in AZ to get a new K1200GT - deposit paid, etc. I changed my mind about 3 weeks ago in favor of the new R1200GS Adventure. So I took myself off the GT list, which made my dealer very relieved because a lot of other people wanted the first GT.

They told me I was about third on the R12GS ADV list, unless I want the one they just got in - a beautiful Alpine White non-ABS R12GS ADV. Since the other guys on the list ahead of me want ABS bikes, they have offered me the non-ABS bike as early as next weekend. They can't guarantee when I would get an ABS model.

One more thing, I looked at the non-ABS bike today, the one that could be mine. It made me cream my jeans - absolutely beautiful, but no ABS and instead of the knobby tires they advertise on this model, it had some crappy Bridgestone mostly road tires.

So, I can buy now and get non-ABS with Bridgestone road tires. My thoughts on ABS are that I like to have it, although to be honest I have had it on the RT for over a year and have never, ever had the ABS "kick in", even at track day. I like the linked brakes, though - since I only use the front brake handle anyway it keeps me honest.

So here are my thoughts - take the non-ABS ADV now and start getting it modded out so I can drive it out to DC at the end of this month. I am assuming the brakes are partially linked, which is the feature I really want. The road tires are okay, since this season I will drive it across the country about 4 times, so might as well burn through some road tires.

Guys - chime in for me. All options considered, including flying to San Jose if they can come up with an ABS ADV for me within the next 10 days or so.

TIA! Bob

arkline

04-01-2006, 10:44 PM

Yo, Bob!

It is your money after all. You should get what you want, if you don't HAVE to settle for less than you want. Oh, yeah, and patience is a virtue.

jamais

04-02-2006, 07:41 AM

I thought only the ABS bikes were linked, at least in the BMW line.

BobFV1

04-02-2006, 08:13 AM

I thought only the ABS bikes were linked, at least in the BMW line.

jamais - you are probably right - I have to check on that. That would be another good reason to wait, which is the sage advice of HPHIC.

Dean - what say you.....

BobFV1

04-02-2006, 08:38 AM

http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/62589530-S.jpg

Tipstall

04-02-2006, 09:30 AM

Bob,

The adventure is the one bike I would buy today in a heartbeat. When I was riding yesterday I actually had that thought. I would not wait, life is short, and it also leaves you a reason to buy a new bike next year.:icon_twisted:

An adventure with street tires does suck, (I hope you get the joke).
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40269

Ken

GPM

04-02-2006, 10:10 AM

I'd check with someone with a dealer connection (Hey Dean-O) and see if there are any ABS models in the pipeline. I've heard the rumors of no ABS bikes in the first batch, but then I've heard lots of rumors.

The only place I've activated my ABS is in the big church parking lot down the street. But I know its there, and that's worth something to me.

My opinion, if you wait a couple of months to get exactly what you want, you'll forget the wait in short order. If you take less than what you want, you'll know it every day.

Deans BMW

04-02-2006, 10:15 AM

Bob, I can't tell you how many times I have been asked this question. My R1150R did not have ABS, my ST does. The K1200R Power Cup bike I had fun playing Go-Fast on did not. Knock on wood.................I have never had the occasion for ABS to kick in ................and again knock on wood...........in my entire riding career...............since being the test rider for the origional BMW motorcycle back in Deutchland...................I have never had the occasion to have needed ABS. My ABS has kicked in on the ST only on the occasion of doing it on purpose, slaming the brakes on my gravel road to see what happens......worked great. The other times scared the s..t out of me. Playing serious Go Fast on hwy 36 in Northern California last summer, a bunch of ......sport riders and one very good guy on a K1200S, a veteran of many track days on his S. We were miles ahead of the rest of the pack, in the twisties and sweepers I would pass him and get about 1/2 mile ahead, would slow and let him pass and follow him for miles, would pass him again repeat about 3 or 4 times. After all, have to keep up Darths old fart creed of the old guy having one more gear........... Each time he tried harder so naturally I would have to show him that old guys rule....So what happened, as I would dive into a corner at 130 to 140 and using the fantastic brakes to the max.....the ABS would start to kick in when the front tire would hit a ripple................WHO BABY,HOLY SHIT no brakes. What I am trying to say is when playing go fast you don't want ABS.

On the GS ADV you can turn the ABS off and you won't be playing as serious GO FAST. On the R1200GS ADV, I would not care either way.On a sport/touring bike or a sport bike you want the ability to turn the ABS off. The BMW non servo, non ABS brakes are great.

Deans BMW

04-02-2006, 10:19 AM

The first 150 R1200GS ADV's for the US market are without ABS due to an ordering mistake on the part of BMW NA. the subsequent ADV's will have ABS until the pipeline is full and then non ABS will be avl by order.

Bones

04-02-2006, 10:27 AM

Bob,
I was willing to pay extra to get my GS (non adventure version) WITHOUT ABS, which was hard to come by last year, and maybe even harder this year. See what Dean says posted above.

I had the ABS on my previous R1150R kick in a few times unexpectedly in circumstances like Dean described and also had the rear one activate with frequency when slowing only semi aggresively on rippled but not graveled surfaces. I HATED that.

SERVOS SUCK.....but I think the bike you are talking about might come with ABS without servos? Not sure on that. If the ABS comes only with servo assist, I would stay away from it....just my opinion.

I think the standard brakes on BMW's are just fantastic, so for ME, the non ABS bike is the way to go.....but you know, ABS issues are like politics and religion around here.

I assume you are tall enough for the GSA. It is quite a bit taller than the regular GS. No way I could ride the A, but it is a bitchin' bike.

Want a bunch of writing on the GSA? Go to ADVrider and click on the GSpot section. About a third of the way down you will see some threads on comparing and contrasting along with other GSA postings.

Don't worry about the tire issue, either. If you are really going to ride it the distances you are talking about, you will want road tires anyway. I have Metzler Tourance tires on mine and have considered getting street dedicated tires on when these are ready for replacement.

Congrats.....you will end up with one either way.

We want pics as soon as you get it !!!!!!

Jeff

Deans BMW

04-02-2006, 10:40 AM

First, be aware that the ABS Servo brakes on the R1200 series are a vast improvement over that on the R1150's

Secondly, I am in some what of a quandry myself. I was 63 Mar. 29th last and one of these days I am going to get stopped for speeds over 130 and/or have the wipe out of the century. From what I hear as you get older, healing becomes more problematic and some say that reflexes are not as sharp........

I have been toying with trading my ST for a GS or GS ADV.......Oh well, time to go squid hunting on Az. 191...the Devils Hwy as some call it.

One of these days I must grow up............

Deans BMW

04-02-2006, 12:30 PM

Oh well..................................trading the ST for a GS .............and ..........the new R1200S.....................The hell with growing up.....................

On my last day I plan for the bank account to be completely empty..........and my last words........WHAT A HELL OF A RIDE

Dallara

04-02-2006, 01:02 PM

Now let's see if I have this straight, Bob...

You want a GS Adventure, and you want the knobbier tires, which would lead one to surmise that you intend to ride it off road a bit... But you actually WANT ABS?

Sorry, but to me that just doesn't make sense.

Last thing you could possibly want riding off road is ABS, followed closely by linked brakes and friggin' servos. Trust me on this one. I don't care if you can turn the ABS off on the ABS-equipped GS's... You still have those insanely stupid servos and linked brakes. If you are on rough terrain and you want to settle the rear end down by dabbing a bit of rear brake the LAST thing you want to happen is have any front brake actuated.

Look at it another way... With the money you save by getting the gorgeous white non-ABS equipped GS Adv. that made you cream your jeans you can put any frickin' set of tires on it you want and save the skins that came on it for when you sell it.

On to look at it even from one more angle... BMW is slowly and quietly trying to move away from servo-assisted ABS anyway. Do you really want to be one of the last folks on the planet who get suckered into BMW's ridiculous servo-assisted hype from decades ago? Hell, even BMW is now admitting that servo-assist was a stupid, inane, idiotic, moronic idea in the first place... If they don't believe in it any longer, why should you?

Don't waste a day without the bike that made you stain your drawers. Get the non-ABS GS today, shod the rubber you want on it, and GO RIDING!

Why would you want to wait, and waste days you could be riding your new toy, for an idea that's a answer to a question nobody asked?

Just my two pesos...

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NACD)

rivi

04-02-2006, 01:57 PM

So what happened, as I would dive into a corner at 130 to 140 and using the fantastic brakes to the max.....the ABS would start to kick in when the front tire would hit a ripple................WHO BABY,HOLY SHIT no brakes. What I am trying to say is when playing go fast you don't want ABS

This is one reason why I sold my abs equipped KR, the other being the w-h-e-e-l base was not good for me and the type of roads I like. I hate abs. The KR was my first and last bike I'll ever own with that system. While playing go fast with friends and hanging on the rear tire of the rider in front of me on bumpy pavement, I damn near ran over that rider when applying the brakes only to have none (even it's only for a fraction of a second). This was always in my head on each and every ride there after. It changed my riding style. It's a most disconcerting feeling and one I don't care to repeat. All BMWs, not just the GS (I think the new R1200S will have this too), should have switchable on/off abs if that's what you'd like.

My 1200GS is my sportbike and do-it-all wunderbike. Non abs! I prefer to keep it (more) simple...

jamais

04-02-2006, 02:01 PM

So let me get this straight, BMW no longer sells servo assisted braking for the newest models and probably won't on future models?

Dallara

04-02-2006, 05:20 PM

That's right, Jamais...

The new R1200S doesn't have servos, nor do any of the new F800 parallel twin models.

Sure, there are still some models with servos, but you will see servo-assist slowly but surely fade quietly away from BMW's motorcycle line-up over the next few years.

Don't forget one important point that BMW servo-assist proponents like to overlook... While almost every other major motorcycle manufacturer has ABS on some models, not a single other manufacturer has servo-assisted braking on motorcycles. It's not because BMW has it patented or the like, nor that the system is somehow too complex or costly to build for other makers - Nope. It's because no other manufacturer wants to have servo-assist because they all understand it is completely unnecessary and a rather silly idea in the first place on a motorcycle. The system is complex, costly, expensive to troubleshoot and maintain, and does absolutely NOTHING to shorten braking distance over a non-servo-assisted system.

Could Honda have servo-assist on it's Gold Wing or ST-1300, or Yamaha have it on their FJR-1300? Sure! Without a doubt!

But the question you have to ask yourself is: Why would they?

They have wonderfully effective and completely transparent ABS systems that work incredibly well with no servo-assist of any kind. Why would they want to add complexity and cost for absolutely no discernible benefit?

BMW's servo-assisted ABS was an answer to a question no one ever asked, and now even BMW is waking up to that simple reality.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NACD)

p.s. - Why don't you join us for our April 21st - 23rd Hill Country Ride, Jamais?

Tipstall

04-02-2006, 08:59 PM

Bob,

You are a bad man.

My new KLX 250 is a disappointment. I'm doing a stage 1 uncork next week and hoping for a big improvement in performance. I'm s close to looking at a GSA.

Ken

BobFV1

04-02-2006, 10:59 PM

Damn all you guys - you are all very smart and wise and knowledgeable and now I have great advice for both ABS and non-ABS positions.

I will flip a coin this week and let you know what I come up with.

Yhanks all!

By the way - Harry (GPM) showed me his new bike today - a real beauty!

socalrob

04-03-2006, 06:26 AM

Bob,

Despite what Dallara says, I'm pretty sure the linked brakes on GS's with ABS are the same as on the old RR's, front lever kicks in both brakes, foot pedal does rear brakes only. I don't see a problem with that in the dirt, and I would shut off the ABS in the dirt as sliding around is half the fun anyway.

The big question is, does the GSA have servo or non servo ABS? I hope BMW is not just doing away with servos on light bikes like the S & 800's, I hope they do away with em on all the models.

Deano,

You definately want to avoid any ticket over 100 mph, at least here in Cali. And you really really want to avoid a second one (at least that's not from personal experience). Local law enforcement agencies from CHP to the LA shariffs seem to be having a terrible bad run of losing officers in the line of duty, mostly from traffic accidents, and I suspect they are all in pretty pissy moods lately if they have to risk their lives chasing down some speeder.

Deans BMW

04-03-2006, 09:19 AM

I am about 99% sure that all BMW's built after the August summer break will have the new Contential brakes as on the up comming R1200S, a completely diff system with no servos and at least the GS bikes and the R1200S will at least have the ability to turn off the ABS during the engine starting sequence.

Rob, good advice.

Optimus Prime

04-03-2006, 10:40 AM

Deans BMW

04-03-2006, 12:14 PM

Ran across the "Fastour" group from Phoenix in Alpine yesterday, I belive Bob NTGM knows them. They asked me to ride along going down the "Devils Hwy, Az 191" if I could keep up, the lead guy was on an 06 GSXR1000 that was tricked out he was always several miles ahead of the group, well I started about 5th rider back..........................:icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

Here is what the Gsxr rider said on the Fastour website this morning, reminds me of Darths saying about old guys and their "one more gear"

That was the fastest ST I have ever ridden with... You beat up on me 3 times. It does help to know the roads and not be afraid of the sand in the curves, too.
Sorry I didn't stop to talk to you, I was trying to stay ahead of the rest of the group. I see why they call it the Devil's Highway - the curves never stop. This is so much better than Deal's Gap. I pulled in to the garage with 600 miles on the odometer and no tickets
Dean what kind of tires do you use on the ST?
_________________
Todd H
'06 GSXR1000 red/black & bad!!!

As I think I said in an earlier post, "to hell with growing up":yahoo:

Road Dog

04-03-2006, 03:49 PM

[QUOTE=Deans BMW]Ran across the "Fastour" group from Phoenix in Alpine yesterday, I belive Bob NTGM knows them. They asked me to ride along going down the "Devils Hwy, Az 191" if I could keep up, the lead guy was on an 06 GSXR1000 that was tricked out he was always several miles ahead of the group, well I started about 5th rider back..........................:icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

So - did you have a gps along? What was your average speed?

The next three day weekend we have the old hide and I will take the Duc and FZ1 to see what we can do.

Deans BMW

04-03-2006, 04:26 PM

Road Dog, I can't wait to meet you, you sound like a true "Peckerhead", a compliment to the max. I have ridden with several FZ1's up here, remember taht the road from Alpine, Az. to Hannigans is betwen 8,000 ft at the lowest up to about 9,200 ft. elevation. The FZ's couldn't even begin to keep up, I have only ridden with a Duc several times, up here he wasn't that good and last summer at Big Bend, some guy had a beautiful red 999R, he was about 4-5 MPH faster in the very long streights, in the curvey parts, the lead was only held by who had the biggest Huevos at the time.

BobFV1

04-05-2006, 12:46 AM

[quote=Deans BMW]Ran across the "Fastour" group from Phoenix in Alpine yesterday, I belive Bob NTGM knows them. They asked me to ride along going down the "Devils Hwy, Az 191" if I could keep up, the lead guy was on an 06 GSXR1000 that was tricked out he was always several miles ahead of the group, well I started about 5th rider back..........................:icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

I know those guys. They are squids. Dean-O - cool that you can still hang with them....

BobFV1

04-06-2006, 11:30 PM

Shit shit shit shit shit shit shit.....

I have to decide on the non-ABS Alpine White R1200GS Adventure tomorrow - either I take it or it goes. There is not a 1200GSA Adventure to be found anywhere, at any price - they are all taken.

Shit shit shit. I don't want to wait for two or three months with the riding season here now!!! Leaning towards the non-ABS bike....after all, my RT is the first bike I ever owned with ABS.....

Stay tuned. Any last words of wisdom would be appreciated.

Oh - Alan - reference your earlier post, it's not that I prefer the knobby tires, but I was expecting them because BMW advertised them as a "value-add" standard feature on the new Adventure. I prefer the 70/30 road/trail tires......

GPM

04-07-2006, 09:19 AM

SHUT UP and buy the damn bike already!!!

Capt. Blackadder

04-07-2006, 09:42 AM

Man, if I had the Benjamins and the inseam for it, i'd be ALL OVER that Alpine White, non-ABS, R1200GS Adventure, like a bulldog on a pork chop. That thing looks friggin' sweet. Non-ABS versions will be rare and who needs ABS anyway? In almost 26,000 miles on my R1150R, I can't recall a single instance where I needed it. Could be my riding style, could be the fact that I've yet to take it out of Arizona where it hardly ever rains. Plus, if it ain't there, it can't break!

:dance:

Whatever: Bob... buy the damn bike, pretty please. For me. Who cares what fargin' tires are on it? Riding time's a-wastin', so saddle up!

Dallara

04-07-2006, 12:32 PM

Bob...

In all seriousness and candor - Buy the NON-ABS GS, period.

Primarily because you will thank me in the end for getting you weaned off those damnable servos and revel in the wondrous braking feel you will have without 'em.

Second to that, you will get to be riding the damn thing ALL SPRING AND SUMMER instead of waiting ALL SPRING AND SUMMER to be riding it.

Bob, you are obviously an incredibly skilled rider given your track days experience, etc. Are you going ot tell me that you NEED ABS?

Just my two centavos... YMMV.

Allan (Dallara - NACD)

Bones

04-07-2006, 03:20 PM

Bob,
Do two things.
1. Buy the non ABS version. I agree with Allan,you won't be sorry. You will actually be happier when (not if) the servo circuit gives you fits. Plust that color is cool.

2. Keep posting the page 3 stuff.

Jeff

BobFV1

04-07-2006, 05:00 PM

Pulled the trigger on the Alpine White R1200GS Adventure today - full Remus system, metal BMW side cases, Tour Tech tank cowl with zip-on tank bag. I could not be happier. Will be picking it up early next week. Many photos to come.

By the way - I thought about it today - ABS is for pussies. I never even touch my rear brake on the track, and my ABS has never kicked in on the RT. When I do demo rides for my MSF students I have to force myself to use the rear brake so i can "demonstrate proper braking technique..."

I'm so excited! Will be stripping the RT down this weekend - also riding escort duty for the Ironman race on Sunday so I will give it one last good thrashing!

Thanks for all the support. Will be driving cross country soon.

I just could not be happier.......

Dallara

04-07-2006, 05:15 PM

Okay, Bob...

Now you got the sled, so come on to the Hill Country Ride and use that to give it a good break in thrashing!

Would be great to have you! :eusa_clap:

Congratulations on the new ride! :023: :023: :023:

ABS isn't necessarily a bad thing, but servo-assist is... So I am going to slightly modifiy your line to:

"Servo-assist is for pussies... Literally!"

I love it!

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NACD)

Deans BMW

04-07-2006, 06:17 PM

Way to go Bob, you mean it won't be there Sunday.......................for me to..........er............ah.................try out..................

BobFV1

04-07-2006, 06:28 PM

Way to go Bob, you mean it won't be there Sunday.......................for me to..........er............ah.................try out..................

Dean-O - First trip out of town will be up the Salt River Canyon to Show Low!

Tipstall

04-07-2006, 07:21 PM

Bob,

Congrats on the new bike.

I just got back from Charlotte and during my customer visits I stopped at the local BMW dealer. Man the adventure seems alot bigger than the GS. I love the look of that bike. In a couple of years I could see that in the garage. I like the extras.

Ken

Wild Will

04-08-2006, 02:22 PM

By the way - I thought about it today - ABS is for pussies.

I won't regale you with tales of sliding off precipitous, unguarded roads after failing to miss that suicidal meat missile, or the time when the AFM fast guy on the Speed Triple got sideways right in front of me on a 60 mph downhill just inches from the unguarded plummet down to the Gualala River bed, but let me just say that ABS has saved my sorry arse at least three times. It hasn't kicked in the last two seasons, but I'm glad it's there. Pussy? I sure do like pussys! Not all pussy's, mind you.
And I definitely use my rear brake when settling the bike into a fast turn at the track. Reg Pridmore taught me that one at Sears Point.
That 1200 in white must be a glorious sight to behold. My first BMW was a Dover white R 69 S way back when at the Jersey Shore. My heart aches for that machine now. Sorry, weak kneed pussy! Oh well.

Bones

04-08-2006, 04:46 PM

Bob,

1. Congrats in all big ways.

2. After hundreds of posts re ABS (and servos), lengthy discussions about braking techniques and physics and tire compounds and road surfaces and electronics and the like, you sum it up four words: "ABS is for pussies."

How great is this site!?!?!

So from now on, I suggest that all posts that even mention ABS have a response...........

"ABS is for Pussies"

Good show!

Jeff