Gutted with Hexheads

[Jaythro]

This last few weeks I've had 3 friends with 1200GS's manouvre me into sorting out problems on thier bikes for them.

Now number one took a few hours at the end of the hunt to diagnose that the can bus (ZFE) controller had quit working, £250 for the Controller if you please!

Number 2 was just fitting HID lighting kits, Despite the size of the bike there is not room to work big hands in there and to route cables etc without them interfering with something else, The igniters are now mounted on the underside of the crash bars under the beak there is no room for them anywhere else

Number 3 today was the straw that broke the camels back I took a 1200 that my friend pete had talked me into swopping his front cover for a repainted one and cleaning the brake bolts and tidy the bike up for him as he has a bad form of sleep appnia and doesn;t have the phizz and bang to get up and at the bike
So the bike has been sitting for a month or so I charged the battery and was taking it for a wee toodle to my folks just 500yards away, but as I was going to turn in thier drive, the brakes felt wooden (I reckoned the Discs were glazed) so I decided to ride another half mile up the road to a junction turn around and head back down and the descent down should deglaze them as it's all downhill.The road is covered in leaves and I was using the 2500 to 4500 torque to work my way up the hill gingerly without spinning up or sliding the tail

On the way down the hill again changing from first to second there was a clatter in the engine and something gave way and I stopped it and my Dad came up and gave me a tow home!!!!!

Bike 1 has just turned 18, 000miles with service history
Bike 3 has just turned 11, 970 miles as above with dealer service history untill Pete took ill about 3 years ago

It's a VERY Sad state of affairs for these bikes to be quitting like this at these ages

In reality can anyone ever remember K100's or R80's or R100's getting on like this??

[DarthRider]

Maybe it just needs some phizz and bang?

[Jaythro]

Maybe it just needs some phizz and bang?

Oh No My friend there was enough banging in there I believe the 1200 right hand cylinder gremlin has come to roost in this bike!

What I can't get my head around is that I was being gentle on the bike there was loads of oil no warning lamps

Just Bang! and clatter clatter clatter!!
:017:

[Sir Limpsalot]

Sometimes shit just happens. A real shame that it was when you were riding the bike though!

Do let us know what the damage is..

Si.

[Blackdog]

It amazes me I made it to 26,900 miles with no problems. My partner has a 2007 GS with 60,000, no problems.

I'm glad I have the Buell as a back-up.

[Jaythro]

I was doing some more thinking last night

Now if they made 500,000 of these and the failure rate is one percent

Then thats 5000 bikes, 5% = 25,000 10% = 50,000

So I wonder if we total up all the Bits that went wrong with all of just the 1200GS bikes and every failure is a seperate entity

I wonder what the Figures are?

I'm glad that so many folks have been fine with thier bikes really, I am! I have been an enthusiast since my first R80 mono rebuild and was probably the only enthusiast at the dealership where I worked. I have 5 older bikes basically because I can't afford a new one :-) but I know where I am with the old ones and I don't require a crystal ball to seek the answers of why it won't go, If they have problems it's usually mechanical (my K100RS airbox problem) and not a manefestation of electrons choosing thier own Karmic paths!

But of the 3 out of 4 folks locally that I know have had failures which brings in "bike 4" last year a friend of mine had his disc brake carrier / rear axle wear each other out 04 R1200GS with 18,000 miles a fault which was a recall for you guys in the states but not for us folks in the UK,
As far as I know all the bikes went down the same production line? and this Bike 4 was slap bang in the middle of the dates for your recall. BMW gave him next to nothing despite photographic evidence of the bikes condition attending bike rallies with our bike club thru the UK and ireland.

So far for me I have 3 different failures on 3 different bikes

[DarthRider]

Don't get me started...

[Jaythro]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:PrXmsXIyOn-RSM:http://www.jhelioviewer.org/imgs/start-button.png

Oh G! On Ya know ya want to!

[DarthRider]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:PrXmsXIyOn-RSM:http://www.jhelioviewer.org/imgs/start-button.png

Oh G! On Ya know ya want to!



Yeah, but I think I'll give everyone a break and just shut up for a change...well, OK just the short version:
Love the bikes, hate the Bastidges who make and "warrant" them!
Wonder if they monitor this forum?:)

[Jaythro]

I think I'm with ya Darth But I (perhaps wrongly) blame the accountants??

Yes the designers cut weight but the accountants cut corners!

Reduce production costs hence the great "EWS saga" 2 parts produced one in the euro zone and one chinese

One of the batches had a VERY HIgh failure rate allegedly!

Fuel pump controllers Who the Fcuk (beggin your parn with the language) put a recepticle for water on a motor cycle and then put an electronic thing in the recepticle for water?????

Final drives Well You folks have a record of the number of failures on your sport touring site

Paint finish and corrosion A costly process to save 5 dollars a bike in paint by putting a thinner layer on??

Yeah I definitely know what ya mean Darth, Just before it exploded I was thinking what a gorgeous balance and poise this bike has and superb torque to deal with this hill and the surface changes etc etc 100 yards further on BANG Clatter Clatter

[Jaythro]

Well it would appear that the poor girl has dropped a valve!

You can actually see the shape of a valve forced into the sparkplug in the last picture

I had my sleeves rolled up then I thought Well there's only 11,970miles on the bike and I believe it has a BM service history so I'll let the owner contact Be Em first

[socalrob]

As far as I have heard I don't recall another valve failure on a hexhead. Not to say anything can't fail, but I don't think the valves tend to be the weak link on these bikes.

EWS thing never affected me, and I have not heard of it happening since BMW got the part sorted out, and the Fuel Pump Controller was just the subject of a recall (I got a new one put on by BMW when I had the last set of tires put on). The FPC had a pretty easy work around to get you home or complete a trip if it did fail.

Final drives, who knows? Thin paint? I sort of imagine that is as much due to environmental regs as anything else. I don't know since I live in a dry climate. Are other bikes where you are better at dealing with the wet weather?

[Deans BMW]

Talking with Chris at San Jose BMW with one of the busiest service depts anywhere, The valve train has not been a problem with the Hexheads

[Jaythro]

Talking with Chris at San Jose BMW with one of the busiest service depts anywhere, The valve train has not been a problem with the Hexheads
I wonder where the difference lies Dean? I mean that seriously not tongue in cheek,
These (below) are only page 1 of a search from the UKGSer forum there are many other forums out there for example ADVrider has been commented on a few times but it is a big varied forum and I haven;t quite grasped thier search mechanism to tie this down to 1200's only

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200754

Quote from above Dunno what the real problem with the r/h cylinder is, but when i was stuck by the side of the road waiting for recovery a bike cop pulled up next to us for a chat and he said that when they got their first batch of 50 1200's within 6 months 35 of them had blown their r/h cyclinders or had some kind of failure on the r/h side"


A quote from another thread but I forgot which one

"All police bikes go for servicing (apparently) at Battersea. I was there the other day and they had a few police RTs in, talking to Jimmy one of the mechanics, he was mentioning that they cost thousands in annual maintenance each they way they are ridden, but are kept in top cond... Pads more than 50% worn are changed etc.. He said that they havent got FPC issues, but final drives and engines go boom like there is no tomorrow.... Reckons 1in 4 police bikes do an engine at least once...."

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203978&highlight=cylinder

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197921&highlight=cylinder

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180522&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171426&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137604&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158074&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157387&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150352&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104605&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141720&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130627&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129823&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82557&highlight=dropped+valve

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71667&highlight=dropped+valve

[Sir Limpsalot]

Wow, plough through that lot and it'll open your eyes a bit. I wonder how they only send the bad bikes to us and not the US?
I am no longer a member of the BMW Club (GB) but a friend passes on the monthly magazine. There have been loads of gripes about (un)reliability on the 1200's. Oddly, the same friend has just gone out and bought a very low mileage R1200R..

Si.

[Jaythro]

By the way I am not on an Anti 1200 Crusade I think they are marvellous BUT I am trying to understand what the catalyst is for all teh valve failures and the final drive failures

I had noticed that the Sport touring forum had little or no mention of valve failures and thought it bizarre

What do you think about these ones guys

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=115324&stc=1&d=1237921452

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=115327&stc=1&d=1237921546

[JCsman]

Seafoam

or

That's normal, they all do that

or

First one we've seen

.:pot:

Man! Bet there were some evil noises coming out of that jug.

[Deans BMW]

Judging by the looks of the buildup on both the piston and head, the owner must ride like a little old lady. IMHO that is as hard, if not harder than anything on the health of the engine.

[DarthRider]

Seafoam

or

That's normal, they all do that

or

First one we've seen

.:pot:

Man! Bet there were some evil noises coming out of that jug.



"Statistically insignificant."

[socalrob]

I wonder where the difference lies Dean? I mean that seriously not tongue in cheek,


I read through a bunch of your links, then I searched GSpot on Advrider. I found one post about failed cyclinder/bad valves, and I think in that link there were maybe another couple of incidents mentioned, but not to the degree of the UK folks. Very strange. Maybe with your speed cameras & stuff coupled with rainy days the UK bikes are not opened up and the cobwebs blown out like we can do at least out here in the west? I actually have not heard of carbon build up problems on the hex heads where there definately was a tendency towards that problem on the oil heads.

Reading through the posts I get the feeling if you have a hex head that uses a fair amount of oil that those are the bikes prone to problems. Mine uses almost no oil whatsoever. I maybe add 1/2 quart between 6K oil change intervals. It sounds like on the problem bikes the cam chain is slipping or jumping a tooth and causing valve interference. Maybe on the bikes that use lots of oil a cam chain tensioner, which I believe may be hydraulically actuated, does not get the oil pressure it needs?

Regarding final drive failures, it almost, maybe, seems like bitching about it is falling off some on Advrider, so maybe BMW was made some fixes that are working. One can always hope so anyway.

Last, are fuel additives different in the UK?

Fascinating stuff.

[Jaythro]

I haven't pulled this one apart yet but I know the guy pretty well and he rides it fairly quickly all the time in fact he gets that spirited he has ground the underside of the rear brake lever down

I do wonder what the stats are but in reality My personal suspicion with that photo was that the head broke at a join "rather" than piston valve interference as that valve shalft would appear straight

Okay so the final question for your perusal

If you had a motorcycle and you rode half sensibly due to traffic and speed cameras and weather conditions SURELY you expect the valve heads to remain attached permanently and not find them falling off in the 12,000 to 20,000 mile range? From all the threads anything that has made it past 20,000 seems to be okay?

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=115324&stc=1&d=1237921452

[Arby]

[QUOTE=Jaythro;96049]

Okay so the final question for your perusal

If you had a motorcycle and you rode half sensibly due to traffic and speed cameras and weather conditions SURELY you expect the valve heads to remain attached permanently and not find them falling off in the 12,000 to 20,000 mile range?

[QUOTE]

One would expect that, I'm sure. :webers:

RB

[socalrob]

Okay so the final question for your perusal

If you had a motorcycle and you rode half sensibly due to traffic and speed cameras and weather conditions SURELY you expect the valve heads to remain attached permanently and not find them falling off in the 12,000 to 20,000 mile range? From all the threads anything that has made it past 20,000 seems to be okay?



Absolutely agree. I am just dumbfounded why the US centric forums don't seem to be picking these failures up like the UK centric forums. Trying to puzzle out what the differences could be.

[Capt. Blackadder]

Okay so the final question for your perusal

If you had a motorcycle and you rode half sensibly due to traffic and speed cameras and weather conditions SURELY you expect the valve heads to remain attached permanently and not find them falling off in the 12,000 to 20,000 mile range? From all the threads anything that has made it past 20,000 seems to be okay?


Yeah, you'd think so... but here's what the left head looked like on mine at just under 40,000 miles:

http://members.cox.net/baldur/R1150R/LeftHead.jpg

:102:

[Jaythro]

Your failure was one of a very small percentage that occurred to my knowledge Baldur.
BUt then production volumes of the 1200's far exceeds the volumes of 1100 and 1150's

The only folks that know will be Mssrs BMW and I'm pretty sure that they won;t disclose the failure rates