Magic Eight Ball says... Oh crap!

[JCsman]

Looking towards the future cars of America (can bikes be far behind?)...

The head of EPA told NPR that "The President has said — and I couldn’t agree more — that what this country needs is one single national road map that tells auto makers who are trying to become solvent again, what kind of car it is they need to be designing and building for the American people. . . . [Because that] is free enterprise in a way. [But don't forget that . . . ] first and foremost the free enterprise system has us where we are right this second." (emphasis added)

Uh huh. Free enterprise told banks they had darn well better give out loans to folk that could not afford them. Free enterprise told us to have union workers be given unsustainable pensions and retirement after years of working at an artificially slowed pace. Free enterprise told the automakers to build small, gas sipping cars even though they lost money on every unit sold....

No wonder we're in this mess.

Sheesh.

[BobFV1]

that what this country needs is one single national road map that tells auto makers who are trying to become solvent again, what kind of car it is they need to be designing and buildingThe Soviet Union tried that - it didn't work out so well for them:

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8035/pimp13yk.jpg

http://www.americandreamcars.com/1975moskvich408.jpg

http://www.americandreamcars.com/1975lada.jpg

[Deans BMW]

Looking towards the future cars of America (can bikes be far behind?)...

The head of EPA told NPR that "The President has said — and I couldn’t agree more — that what this country needs is one single national road map that tells auto makers who are trying to become solvent again, what kind of car it is they need to be designing and building for the American people. . . . [Because that] is free enterprise in a way. [But don't forget that . . . ] first and foremost the free enterprise system has us where we are right this second." (emphasis added)

Uh huh. Free enterprise told banks they had darn well better give out loans to folk that could not afford them. Free enterprise told us to have union workers be given unsustainable pensions and retirement after years of working at an artificially slowed pace. Free enterprise told the automakers to build small, gas sipping cars even though they lost money on every unit sold....

No wonder we're in this mess.

Sheesh.

I think it is more Free Enterprise tempered with directives of the Barney Franks of our government. Case in point, Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Ford has a European varient of of the Focus family, Diesel powered, roomy 4 door sedan that gets 60 ish MPG good performance etc. but not allowed over here due to our onerous regs. BMW builds all of their hi performing Diesel powered SUV's over here (USA), but can not be sold over here, again due to regs.

Bill, I know that you work for the gov. "Hi Im here from the Gov and I am here to help you" and prolly have more insite than I......but IMHO, I think its a little more complex than that.

Of course, we all know that I am a dyed in the wool, trogolodite, red neck, knuckle dragging conservative.................:linzi:

[JCsman]

I think it is more Free Enterprise tempered with directives of the Barney Franks of our government.

... Ford has a European varient of of the Focus family, Diesel powered, roomy 4 door sedan that gets 60 ish MPG good performance etc. but not allowed over here due to our onerous regs. BMW builds all of their hi performing Diesel powered SUV's over here (USA), but can not be sold over here, again due to regs.


Dean,
We're on the same wave length here (I think my sarcasm does not always come through). Pure free enterprise is not a solution to everything. It's Darwinian. But we are far, far from actual free enterprise.

And the more the government tries to micromanage loans, car design, etc, (all with the best of intentions, of course - wink-wink) the worse off we will be IMO. The distortion of free enterprise is clearly a major cause of the woes we face. But the creators of that distortion have clearly said (e.g. Speaker Pelosi) that congress had NO hand in the economic turndown. Yeah, right. And that applies to both parties.

And, Dean you are exactly right about the US automakers having great cars they can't bring in to the US. Gee, do you suppose the fact they are not produced by UAW workers is a factor? Or that the greenies have a bias against diesels?

[Deans BMW]

Dean,
We're on the same wave length here (I think my sarcasm does not always come through). Pure free enterprise is not a solution to everything. It's Darwinian. But we are far, far from actual free enterprise.

And the more the government tries to micromanage loans, car design, etc, (all with the best of intentions, of course - wink-wink) the worse off we will be IMO. The distortion of free enterprise is clearly a major cause of the woes we face. But the creators of that distortion have clearly said (e.g. Speaker Pelosi) that congress had NO hand in the economic turndown. Yeah, right. And that applies to both parties.

And, Dean you are exactly right about the US automakers having great cars they can't bring in to the US. Gee, do you suppose the fact they are not produced by UAW workers is a factor? Or that the greenies have a bias against diesels?

+1 Bill

[jamming]

Let the auto manufacturers fail. Keep the US government out of the car business.

My Daddy had a saying..you got yourself into this mess, get yourself out.

[Griffon]

More reasons to NOT buy a car and move somewhere I can reasonably ride year-round.

[supermotoC]

"Free" means no one (or any organization) telling you what you can/cannot do.

We are moving farther away from being "free", and our new administration is requiring many things of us, all in the name of freedom. All very contradictory.

BTW, the BMW 530d (Euro-only) gets better fuel mileage than the "hey, look at me, I'm GREEN" Toyota Prius. It also doesn't have an $8000 battery change after 7 years. Ouch. I pity the Prius owners/buyers, because they have been fooled into thinking they are doing something beneficial to environment. They are only supporting Toyota.
There are many Euro-only cars that get much better gas mileage than what we are driving, but most (if not all) are not made by the American Auto Worker's Union. That is the primary reason we can't buy them here.
It's greed, my friends. Plain & simple. Power & money.

[jpenney]

Micromanaged ... no I don't think that should happen, but I do think that the right amount regulation is often a good thing.

I like knowing that I am relatively safe in my car were I to get into an accident. I like knowing that we have agencies that are looking a food and toy safety. While they sometimes get misguided, could you imagine the corners that would be cut if there weren't the social agreement?

It's easy to see ... look at China. Look at the things that they get away with to make money.

Without some regluation, industries will run rampant chasing the quick dollar. Please look at credit default swaps ... a clear example of an unregulated industry that was able to cripple the world economy with it's exuberance.

As a whole, people aren't very long sighted. When gas was $4 per gallon SUV sales dropped. When gas dropped the SUV sales went back up. Anyone with any vision can see that gas is going to keep going up. We will get temporary dips ... but it's trending up. As long as can makers and buyers can work those SUVs, they will possibly at the expense of a more sustainable, long-term product.

Once gas pops back over $3 I think the U.S. automakers will be glad that they were guided toward more efficient designs as that will be what people can afford to operate.

[JCsman]

JPenny,

I agree there's a middle ground. Hence my mention that a totlaly "free" market is a problem.

But the auto guys are being forced to build cars that they CAN NOT make a profit on under current union work rules and wages. They actually made a profit on those big vehicles you appear to dislike.

It's one thing to "know what's best" for us little folk based upon assumptions of future gas cost and inform us we should wise up.

It's quite another to ask us to fund the continuation of an dying auto company, then force that company to build cars of the government's specifications at a loss, and ask us to continue to finance that loss.

If it were so obviously the right thing to do, one of the companies would be going full tilt boogie to gas sippers and, when your $13 per gal. appears, they'll rule the world.

[jpenney]

JPenny,

I agree there's a middle ground. Hence my mention that a totlaly "free" market is a problem.

But the auto guys are being forced to build cars that they CAN NOT make a profit on under current union work rules and wages. They actually made a profit on those big vehicles you appear to dislike.

It's one thing to "know what's best" for us little folk based upon assumptions of future gas cost and inform us we should wise up.

It's quite another to ask us to fund the continuation of an dying auto company, then force that company to build cars of the government's specifications at a loss, and ask us to continue to finance that loss.

If it were so obviously the right thing to do, one of the companies would be going full tilt boogie to gas sippers and, when your $13 per gal. appears, they'll rule the world.

I am not a fan of SUVs (I think they are a poor replacement for a van in most cases) but I was pointing towards the short-sightedness of the "market". When a long-term item is purchased based on a short-term stimulus ... it's not thinking.

I'd like to see the auto companies stay around. I'd like to see them leaner and more creative too. Unfortunately, with a limited life cash cow (like SUVs) they will eventually go under which could be catastrohpic for the entire economy. A larger problem is that a few companies (or financial institutions) can get so big that they can cause such a dramatic change in the overall market ... but that's another discussion.

Those super huge corporations are slow and unreactive. That's not the world that people are living in. Look at the other things we do an purchase: online interaction, electronics, etc ... lots of changes. Lots of companies. Lots of competition. Without some "guiding hand" there is no reason for a gigantic company to change. And most dont' until it's too late.

I listened to an episode of "Studio 360" from a couple weeks ago that talked about hot rod culture and new car designs. They spoke to the creator of the Aptrea electric car. Hearing the quick, efficient way that they designed and engineered the car was inspiring. I wish Detroit would get that.