So your kid wants to ride a street bike

[socalrob]

This topic is always good for some personal angst for me. IMHO riding is about the riskiest legal thing a person can do. I have a 13 YO boy that I take out dirt biking. I can see the writing on the wall and I know he will want to ride sometime in the future. He has mentioned getting a bike at 16.

My thought is I would want a kid wrapped up in a fairly sedate car (or maybe truck, though not as safe) for several years as they learn to drive, so mistakes will not likely be fatal/injurius. I know I can drive alot better than I could at say 17. I would like the inevitable mistakes to take place in a car.

Then there is the whole judgement thing. I quit riding in college when I realized I had zero self control of the wrist. In my 40's I only now have maybe just enough self control, but not even sure of that as I recently got a major speeding ticket (which I'm not discussing till its resolved). My preference would be for my son to not street ride until late 20's at the earliest, but not sure thats reasonable. He also is more risk adverse than I am, so he may well have better control.

All this said, I get alot of personal satisfaction out of riding, dirt riding with my son is just great, & after watching Long Was Round I have even thought about a 2 up ride with my son to Alaska when he turns 16 (be a good excuse to buy a GSA1200). He actually has reasonable gear right now to ride 2 up on my RR, an Arai dirt bike helmet w/face shield, a british textile riding jacket with armour (forget the brand), street gloves, offroad boots, knee armour for dirt, dirt riding pants he could wear over jeans. I am just waiting to but a stealth back rest on the bike, for my piece of mind anyway.

Reading threads about young guys getting sport bikes, I was looking at those new Triumph Scramblers & thought what a great first street bike for a young man. Of course I would insist on rider training courses, maybe track days together before I even let him on the street?

On the otherhand, to be blunt, if he kills himself (or is killed) on a bike, I would view that as my fault for introducing him to riding. May well be too late, as I suspect he will ride someday anyway.

I see his riding as possibly being the best or worst thing we could do.

Sorry for the ramble, but this has been on my mind for some time.

[Tipstall]

Rob,

My son turns 11 next month. We ride dirt bikes together and have a blast. we do not ride 2 up on the R, neither he are I feel good about it. He has made several comments about getting a street bike. I rode dirt bikes at his age and never felt good about street bikes. I waited till I was 40 before I was ready.

I guess after my dad died I said life is short and do what you want. I had flown when I was 15/16 and have many pilot friends. I went and got my certificate and my son and I have a blast in the plane.

I think it goes with allot of things, teach them the best you can and hope they listen. My son is Mr Cautious so I'm not worried.

Just keep him close and hopefully he will follow in your way.

Ken

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

Rob;
Your concerns are legitimate. However, note that boys will be boys. There will be an age when boys will do what they please even if it means going against the wishes of their parents. This age varies depending on parent involvement.

The point is that your son might decide to do street riding when he goes off to college. Wouldn't you prefer to be involved in his learning and progress?



I can't put myself in your shoes because I don't have children, but from an outsider's perspective, I have some recommendations.

First, when your son is old enough to ride a street bike, buy him (or direct him to) a good solid dual purpose bike with 250 or 400cc. Beginners should not have access to 100 hp sport bikes, nor should they have the ability to go faster than 70 or 80 mph. Also, it is much easier to adapt to a street enduro from a dirt bike as opposed to learning sport ergos at the same time as road safety.

Second. Introduce him to Bob and arrange for him to take the beginners and adnvanced safety course. Taking it more than once is even a good idea.

Third. Take him to ttrack day. Reading your posts over the last few years tells me that you and your son are very close and enjoy doing things together. This is a great idea for learning as well as bonding.

Finally. Limit his road riding to trips where both of you are together. Don't let him go off with his friends until you are comfortable with his learning.


I wish my dad would have been involved with me and my bikes. I loved the man, but he never took much interest in my riding. Good luck and happy trails.

[Bones]

Rob,
I think what Torque outlined makes some excellent sense. I too ride dirt bikes with my son (9). I think I enjoy it more than he does, partly because I am completely obsessed about all things motorcycle related an am thrilled it something we actually DO together. He even said to me recently "Dad, I like riding,but I am not obsessed with it like you are." Guess it is obvious.

My observation about human nature is that testosterone does some very strange things to young male minds. Remember...all of us who survived beyond the age of 30 were ABSOLUTELY certain that only other guys got hurt or killed doing things we could get away with. So in retrospect, I am glad I was too busy and too poor to own a motorcycle until much later.

However, as you know, he will decide that he will ride on the street or not. SO, I would say to take advantage of the good relationship you have with him and do it with him if you think he is going to do it anyway. MSF courses, both levels. Definately do some track schools, because he will have no idea how little he knows until really learning things you learn at those schools. When ever I was at a school and saw a father/son together, I was envious. And every time, the son seemed totally dialed into what was being taught and I never saw one of the sons be a hot shot.

I think Torque's suggestion about starting on a dual sport is fantastic. They still go plenty fast to get one in trouble, but they are more fun to ride at a reasonable pace. As we all know, a sport bike doesn't get fun at all until you wick it up...even if you are over 40. Those things should NOT be in the hands of a young male street rider.

Re your two up trip: DO IT! Get him a real helmet first, then do it. It will truly be one of those once in a lifetime things that will make for a relationship that cannot be explained. Just think of the stories he will tell when he has kids. DO IT!

I was lucky to take a cross country trip with my step dad (in a car) when I was 31. It is something I will never forget and it transformed an already great relationship into one that is beyond description. Two up on a MC....orders of magnitude better. DO IT. Take pics and post them.

You can still explain all of your reservations about his street riding until after college....maybe he will say "OK." Who knows?

Keep us posted.

Jeff

[Tripton]

I guess I may be too young to fit into this arguement, but when I was younger, (And much much smaller) my dad thought it to be a great idea to get me a Yamaha TW200 when I was 11....in 1993. I am not saying that I have a lot of experience, especially since i got my first "real" bike last June. Before that I was limited to my dads 1978 Harley with a sidecar, and short jaunts on friends bikes, thought I did ride the hell out of that little TW.

At any rate, I am very VERY glad at this time that I had as much experience as i did, on and off the road. The TW is a perfect bike, with something like 17 horsepower and a top speed of about 75...downhill and tucked in tight.

I did take the motorcycle safety course and I will admit that at the time I was anxious and naive (still am) but I really learned a lot at that course.

Now I have a little brother that has his learners permit to drive a car, and he is really good. Hell, he operates front end loaders to load dump trucks during the summer (its a family business....we start learning pretty early) Iowa has a law that says you can get a motorcycles learners permit at age 14, and drive a bike within sight of a fully licensed rider. This scares me a little, but this summer, he is getting it, and I am going to try to get him started properly. After that, hopefully he will take the MSC anyway, and start out totally the right way.

BTW, still have that little indestructable TW, still love it, and it still runs like new, and it has had a BEATING. Makes me mad that i have outgrown it so much....

[BobFV1]

Great topic - sort of cathartic.

When my dad returned from Germany after WWII he settled in Los Angeles and bought an old Harley, which he quickly drove off a cliff in Topanga Canyon. He was in a coma in the VA hospital for over a month, and when he recovered (long before he met my Mom) he had sworn off bikes forever.

Well, when I got to High School I used to sneak off to the very same Topanga Canyon and dirt track race on an old Jawa CZ that a bunch of us had secreted in the brush near our illegal track - we would race in the afternoon and come home all dirty. I begged and borrowed street bikes to ride on the street, but it was not until I got into the Navy in 1980, stationed in San Diego, that I was able to run out and buy my first bike...and my second...and my third, well, it has never stopped.

Had my share of close calls over the years, did a lot of track riding and had a racing license for a year, but mostly have been a street rider all my life, all over the world.

I mostly lived apart from my kids as they grew up, but my oldest son Nick has always been a kindred spirit (scary, eh?) When Nick turned 17, he saved his money and bought himself a scooter. Scary as hell, I remember him riding that thing on the street and I could just imagine him being smashed to bits. I vehemently disapproved but he was set on riding. So about 6 months after he bought the scooter a woman backed over it in her car as it was parked on a street outside Nick's apartment in Takoma Park, Maryland.

I hoped this would be a defining moment and Nick would keep his ass off the street on two wheels, but he actually took the insurance money and more work savings straight out to the Kawasaki dealer and bought a brand new Ninja 250. We were living on opposite coasts at the time, so while I could discourage him from riding over the phone, I couldn't stop him. I would travel to the East coast to see him from time to time. He bought a Suziki RF600 and kept the Ninja so we started riding together when I visited him. I made him hold his speed down and use ATTGATT and by goodness, he is a pretty safe and sane rider! He's 20 now, almost 21. We have ridden cross country (all over the West Coast, Nevada, and Arizona) on two bikes together, and he has been to a couple of track days with me. I have managed to get him through a couple of MSF courses (which I didn't teach - that would have been pretty tough for both of us) and he has developed in to a very responsible rider. He needs experience, as all young riders do, so I ride with him every chance I get.

So the important things about Nick and his riding are that he respects the bike and himself, and he rides safe, minimizing his risks. I encourage him in his pursuit of safe motorcycling. My younger son, now 18, took the BRC, but he is just not interested at all in riding - he just couldn't care less - the bug never bit him. He's a good kid anyway. And the girl child - she will ride on back if she needs to get somewhere and it's the only way to get there, but that's about all her interest. She likes it when I ride so that she can have access to my car.

It's a great sport - teach safety and responsibility through your actions, imbue a respect for life and a respect for ATTGATT, and encourage him to ride safe.

[socalrob]

Guys,

Thanks for the input.

Bones,

His helmet is a Arai dual purpose full face helmet, I can't recall the model, but it has a removable visor, and a removable full shield that can used with or without goggles. They are the rage with the GS riders, look like dirt bike helmets but can function as street helmets, at least under 100mph wind speeds. I got him this helmet after deciding the $125 dirt bike helmet wasn't all that well made.

Bob,

I appreciate your ever ongoing campaign for safety. I agree with you, and am making a very determined effort to control my right wrist. Last 3 weeks or so I've held the speed to no more than a couple of MPH over limit, which here in LA means the slow lane. Like an alcoholic trying to stay dry, its a constant but worthwhile struggle.