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supermotoC
03-30-2007, 06:38 AM
nicked from Raptors&rockets.com:


Poor old Bayerische Motoren Werk is right now in its biggest struggle both internally and externally. The Boxer engine is perhaps an even more characteristic trademark than Harley's V45. After a long and exclusive conversation with Markus Biebricher at the BMW-Motorrad factory we know that BMW have several options to replace the air-cooled Boxer engine. But inside the 100.000 motorcycles a year firm, the opinion is divided. To make the current 1200cc Boxer engine compliant with future emission and noise regulations it will have to be dropped from the line-up for a completely new design. If BMW are to continue with its traditional Boxer design there are several problems. The major problem is that a liquid cooled DOHC version of the Boxer engine would simply be too wide! You wouldn't be able to corner such a motorcycle without ploughing up the tarmac with the cylinder heads. 'It would be too wide and would not corner properly', Markus said. BMW also stated in our phone interview that without the Boxer engine BMW are afraid it will loose some of its uniqueness and be left with engines that are more similar to other manufacturers.


As we all know BMW have their in-line four, parallell twin and single cylinder engines in addition to the Boxer. So one of the alternatives to replace the Boxer line-up would be to use parallell twin engines rather than the Boxer. But then again, that would change dramatically how a BMW GS would look like for instance. Can you imagine a BMW R1200GS without the two cylinder heads sticking out on each side? No, neither can we and this is a big dilemma for the BMW engineers at the moment. The Boxer engine is the jewel in the crown and center of attention for BMW. Biebricher said that 1 or 2 years is not enough for BMW to find a solution and that there are not even drawings of such a replacement for the R-series.

At the same time, BMW is a company in growth and a huge changing process is taking place right now. BMW are sharpening its image with more and more sporty models. But the company is still finding its way in a market bound to change dramatically. Harley-Davidson, Buell, Moto Guzzi and Ducati are in the same situation. Who will find the best solutions?

BMW will participate in the Le Mans endurance race again with a race prepped R1200S. BMW told us that this bike could make the basis for a new HP2 model. BMW are also at the very end of development on the current 1200cc Boxer engine and openly admits that there are not much more to get from the engine. This might be an argument against such a HP2 model. The R1200S is powerful enough, but perhaps it can be lightened?
Deans BMW
03-30-2007, 09:13 AM
Very intresting.
Gord
03-30-2007, 11:45 AM
Very intresting.


http://rowanandmartinslaughin.com/wolfgang.jpg
Ed K
03-30-2007, 11:59 AM
nicked from Raptors&rockets.com:


Biebricher said that 1 or 2 years is not enough for BMW to find a solution and that there are not even drawings of such a replacement for the R-series.



Remember when they said the same thing about the pushrod V-8?

And remember the solution that Chevy came up with? A new design, emission compliant, MORE powerful pushrod V-8 that powers the very successful Corvette.

IMHO, the only way BMW is going to give up on the Boxer, is if customers don't want it, and its becomes impossible to meet emissions restrictions. And those German engineers are very clever.

Could be wrong, but my bet is it ain't gonna happen... for a long time.

On the other hand, if in the unlikely case that they do phase it out, our bikes will, in addition to providing riding pleasure, be an investment.
fganger
03-30-2007, 12:17 PM
Hmm . . . I seem to recall the 1953 Corvette powered with a push rod six. :028: But I could be wrong - AGAIN!!

Stinkin' Frank
DarthRider
03-30-2007, 01:07 PM
Hmm . . . I seem to recall the 1953 Corvette powered with a push rod six. :028: But I could be wrong - AGAIN!!

Stinkin' Frank

The "Blue Flame Six" with dual carbs, wooo...
JCsman
03-30-2007, 01:36 PM
The "Blue Flame Six" with dual carbs, wooo...

AND the, (slip n' slide with) Powerglide, two speed automatic transmission.

wooo indeed.
Ed K
03-30-2007, 11:45 PM
Have to admit... I have a soft spot for V-8, push rod grunt!

Actually, this red headed beauty below has much in common with the Boxer.

Mucho torque down under (excuse me DJ), does not rev that high (but so what!), latest in technology from a very old design, great reliability, and lots of fun for this almost 11 year T-topped, 6 speed manual, 5.7 L barn-burner.

And it actually gets decent mileage on the freeway 25ish MPG... if you dont step on it. And when you do, well, those 8 cylinders get thirsty very fast... you can almost see the gauge move!

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/efkeiser/Ed%20K%20Ride/th_119_1994.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/efkeiser/Ed%20K%20Ride/119_1994.jpg)
Bake
04-01-2007, 01:26 PM
I do wonder if water cooled cylinders and a thin jacketed cylinder head alone might not help the present R1200 engine..
My R1150R , with the smoothly blended cascade style oil coolers, has provoked ideas of this sort. Placing water jacketed cylinders/ heads with radiators in the R1150R's position, then the oil cooler in the newer R1200R's position, could lead to an immensely cooled engine. Leaner mixtures than already present seem hard to grasp, but raising the operating temperature of the combustion chamber might help. Pull this heat out with the addition of water jacketed systems, damp down engine noise with the water cooled areas, and leave off DOHC engine width, maybe this would work.
Another possible angle is to reduce the overall boxer engine size, say a smaller R1200 engine variant of 750 cc, then run the Kompressor in the position of the alternator, to regain some of the power loss.
(Ditch the ABS system to gain space for components, BMW:naughty: )
JCsman
04-01-2007, 01:49 PM
It's as hard for me to think of BMW without a boxer engine as of H-D without a 45 degree V-twin.

Of course H-D now has the V-Rod engine. But it doesn't do the trick for many of the faithful.

Perhaps BMW is adding engine types to spread their range. But, even if smaller displacement to allow for water cooling, I suspect there will be some form of boxer for a long time to come.
supermotoC
04-03-2007, 08:38 AM
It's as hard for me to think of BMW without a boxer engine as of H-D without a 45 degree V-twin.

Of course H-D now has the V-Rod engine. But it doesn't do the trick for many of the faithful.

Perhaps BMW is adding engine types to spread their range. But, even if smaller displacement to allow for water cooling, I suspect there will be some form of boxer for a long time to come.

One can only hope. If it can be done, BMW will do it to save the tradition.
RiceBurner
04-07-2007, 06:20 PM
One can only hope. If it can be done, BMW will do it to save the tradition.

DO NOT BET ON THAT.

When the K100 series was becoming accepted, and before the "oilheads" cae out BMW very strongly tried to dump the Boxer engine, there were repeated announcments that the R100 "Mystic" (IIRC) would be the last Boxer.

Customer outcry stopped that, and the oilheads were produced, about 2 years later (IIRC).