Favorite Vintage Bike You Wanted But Never Had

[BobFV1]

BSA 441 Victor. My dad worked in a police tow yard and they had one of these. He was going to get it for me to salvage, but I guess I must have pissed him off and I never got it. Always have wanted one:

http://www.kagnewstation.com/scrapbook/mccandless/bsa441.jpg

[GPM]

Its probably high on a lot of people's lists, it tops mine.

http://www.allenmotorsports.com/images/vincent2.jpg

[arkline]

BobNTM

Rumor had it those Victors were, um, finicky kicking 'em over. Some Sort of magic required to get 'em to light.

GPM

Hard to argue with any Vincent.

[BobFV1]

BobNTM

Rumor had it those Victors were, um, finicky kicking 'em over. Some Sort of magic required to get 'em to light.

GPM

Hard to argue with any Vincent.

I once dated a British girl. She was the same way, except she smelled like black pudding...

Here's another one I really wanted in my dirty daze (early 70's) - all I had was a patch for my jacket....:(

http://www.terra.es/personal/tarkin/Bultaco/alpina1975.jpg

[Bones]

Does anybody have any pics of the old little Honda 50cc bike that had "fenders" that were so round they looked like the front of a VW beetle? I can't remember the model designation, but it was the first motorcycle I rode, back in the 60's, and I can still remember the smell of the exhaust. Brings back great memories...would love to find one of those!

Jeff

[Bones]

....I think it was the Qa 50. But I can't find pics. Dallara probably has one in his garage!


Jeff

[Dallara]

Well, Bones...

If it was the original Honda C100/102 Cub/Super Cub, and looked kind of like this:

http://world.honda.com/news/2002/image/2021217a.jpg


You might be surprised to know they still make 'em! In fact, it is Honda's best selling model in history - selling over 35 MILLION since it was first introduced in August of 1958. In fact, over 2.2 MILLION sold in 2002 alone... It has sold in over 160 countries in its production lifetime, and though no longer exported to the USA it is still a mainstay of transportation in much of the world, providing inexpensive, reliable, and fun conveyance.

Now if it looked more like this:

http://www.cmsnl.com/classic-honda-gallery/media/display/6/61/image/200507022244520.IMG_0141.JPG


Then it was a Honda C110 "Sport 50" or "Super Sport 50" produced from 1960 until 1969.

If, however, it was a Honda QA-50 as you suggested, then it looked like this:

http://www.hondatrail70.com/qa50yellow.jpg



Honda QA-50's were actually pretty rare ducks... Honda had been building the Honda Z-50 Mini-Trail (known as the Monkey or Gorilla in some other markets) since 1968, but the Z-50 had an single overhead-cam engine with a 3-speed semi-auto transmission, and was fairly expensive compared to some of the more crude "mini-bikes" of the day, so Honda pulled out their old iron-barreled pushrod 50 engine and built it as bare-bones as possible to save costs, and released the new model as the QA-50 in 1970. It only had a 2-speed semi-auto gearbox. It sold well it's first two years, but poorly after that, however, and was pulled from the model line-up after the 1975 model year. The Z-50 went on to be produced a few more decades!

No, I don't have one in my garage... In fact, I never owned a QA-50 personally, though I owned a bunch of Z-50 Mini-Trail's along the way, and even a C110 "Sport 50" as shown above (I bought it in the late '80's and restored it, selling it in 1992 to a collector).

Hell, I wish I had a Z-50 Mini-Trail right now, but the early ones are commanding unbelievably high prices for a nice original one.

Hope this helps!

Allan (Dallara)

(ps - if you want some more pics, just let me know!)

[Dallara]

It is almost impossible to name all the bikes along the way that I wished I had gotten over the years... Geez, the list seems almost endless.

However, here was one Jap bike I only wished I had taken a stab at, but never did:

http://www.vjmc.org/members/ron2.jpg

It's a Kawasaki KZ-1000 Mk. II - produced in 1979 and 1980. I owned a couple of Kawa 900cc Z-1 B's (both 1975 models) along the way, but there was always something really beautiful to me about the Mk. II. I rode a couple, and they still had many of the handling flaws of the earlier Z-1/KZ's... Still, I was sure I could have fixed that.

One Brit bike I always lusted after, but never got one of (and I owned quite a few other Brit bikes over the years, both current models and classics) was a late Ariel Square Four:

http://www.britironrebels.com/galleria/data/media/2/Del_Mar23.JPG


The one above is a 1957, but a 1958 model would do just as nicely.


This next one is something I actually owned an example of, and have kicked myself senseless for ever selling it:

http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/52515348-L.jpg


I had picked up a 1980 Honda XL-500 engine new, in the crate, for $250 when Honda was trying to get rid of a bunch of them in 1988. Then our local dirt bike club started a "Vintage Class" in 1989. Rules were simple - the bikes had to be 1979 or older, regardless of displacement. At the first event a few bikes showed... Some Suzuki RM's, a Yamaha YZ or two, some '79 Honda CR-250 "Red Rocket's", and a European bike or two... I was fascinated, but I wanted something REALLY out of the ordinary, so I began looking for something really "out there"...

Then I am reading "Cycle News" one day, and there in the classifieds, is a guy selling a 1979 C&J frame set-up for Honda XR/XL 500's of the vintage. Six phone calls and a Fed-Ex'ed check to him later I was the proud owner of nearly new C&J frame, complete with Simons forks and Fox Airshoxs out back. It also had the complete C&J alloy airbox, a 1979 CR-250 tank and wheels, and lots of other trick little bits. Actually putting the whole thing together was a bit of an exercise in frustration, but with some help from Jeff Cole at C&J the whole thing finally went together. However, the completed machine was not without its problems... No matter of fiddling could ever get the Simons (these were the early Simons conventional forks, not the later upside-down variety) to work worth a damn, so the search was on for a set of works Showa forks from the era, or at least a set of stock '78, '79, or '80 forks (all of which would be legal in our vintage class since the frame was the deciding factor for age). I almost landed a set of works Honda Showa forks from the era (from of all places Horst Leitner of original ATK fame...), but we couldn't get square on a price. I settled for a set of 1979 CR-250 forks I finally found, and now the hybrid was showing some promise. The rear end with the Fox Airshox's was magic, and though the forks (even with stiffer springs and tightened valving) were not the best they were workable on the track. I actually left the XL-500 (that's the street/trail model, which was tuned milder than the XR of the vintage) engine totally stock other than an XR carb and the C&J exhaust system. The thing was a stump puller with a powerband wider than the Mississippi in flood stage... Pure fun!

The day came for the bikes first trial by fire at a race, and it worked flawlessly in practice. In fact, I was lapping remarkably close to my times on my then current race bike - a 1989 ATK 406 (380cc two-stroke case reed Rotax engine).

I went to the line in the first moto and surprisingly pulled a holeshot of monumental proportions against Suzuki RM-250's and 370's (one of each), two '79 Honda CR-250's, a Kawasaki of the vintage, one Maico and one Husqvarna... Not a big field, but all good riders, and no one had expected the four-stroke to even be competitive. I led with amazing ease, the bike working so well I was stunned. It was deceptively fast, getting all its power down to the slick, dusty, South Texas hard-pack surface, and big, lazy powerslides were child's play. The brakes were a bit of a weakness, though. Being off the 250 Honda, and not used to hauling down a bike that weighed nearly 260 lbs. (the '79 Honda CR-250's weighed under 215 lbs.), they faded rather quickly, particularly my brake of choice - the front. Then I had my first problem about half way through the moto... The rear brake cable broke. I was later to learn this was the real achilles heel of the C&J set-up, which used a cable to actuate what was normally a rod actuated brake. Even though the cable was pretty beefy, they snapped with remarkable regularity (and this was one of the reasons I finally sold the thing, not ever being able to find an adequate solution). Anyway, with the rear brake cable gone I now had literally no brakes, and even though the big four-stroke had lots of engine braking I still needed some brakes for some of the slower corners. I ended up losing two positions in the closing laps and finished third.

I didn't have a spare brake cable with me so I simply removed it for the second moto, resigning myself to having to race without a rear brake. Amazingly enough I got a holeshot again in the second moto, though not as commanding a one. I led the first lap nearly all the way around, and was adapting to "no brakes" when disaster struck... The friggin' throttle cable broke!

Well, that was it for that day... Yet, I went on to win some of our vintage races with the bike, and had a great time with it. However, slowly our vintage class just sort of died out. I really can't remember why, but when we started having only three bikes show up at our regular events it was pretty ridiculous, so we dumped the class.

I still used the C&J Honda for some trail riding and general playing around, but it seemed like every other time I rode it the rear brake cable broke. Jeff Cole sent me at least ten cables for the rig, some even being "new and improved" ones. I also had at least three custom cables made by outfits that swore their's would pop, but yet they did. It really had to do with the design of the leverage ratio of the pedal, cable, and rear backing plate arm, and without heavily modifying the frame for a rod it wasn't ever going to be fixed. I always intended to do just that, but with the class dying out and me riding it less and less it just fell off the priority radar.

Finally, after the C&J was relegated to primarily sitting in the back corner of the shop I decided to sell it. It took me a pretty good while but one day I had a buyer and it was gone...

Only it and three other dirt bikes are ones I wish I had today...

I miss it.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara)

[GPM]

Well, Bones...

If it was the original Honda C100/102 Cub/Super Cub, and looked kind of like this:

http://world.honda.com/news/2002/image/2021217a.jpg



Wow, that was my first bike, 1961, 13 years old. First passenger was fat Francine from across the street. Put her on the back, revved the engine, popped a wheelie, and fat Francine from across the street shot off the back taking my tail light with her. Oh well, never liked fat chicks anyway....

[Bones]

Dallara....I KNEW you would come through. It was the Q bike that I rode back then. Maybe it was '70, but I thought it was earlier.


Thanks!

[Acacia]

Brings back good memories.

Alan, do you have any pictures of an NSU 50cc moped from the late 50's. 2 gear jobs that looked a lot like bicycles? Rated 1.2hp if I recall?

My brother bought one (early 60's), and I as a 14 year old got my hands on it an began to tune it. It was supposed to do a max of 35mph and rev to about 5500. I soon had it singing like a model airplane engine, replacing the 12mm bing carb with a 16mm Delorto, ported it etc - and use to love to sit behind the C 110 Honda's 'big deals' on the level and pass them down hill - on this hideous 26" wheeled thing! Uphill was a battle with only 2 gears!

At one point we put a rev counter on to see what it was doing - 12,000. Only problem I had - ran main bearings about every 800-1000 miles. All aluminium barrel - hard chromed, no liner - and it never seized

That was fun!

[Dallara]

That wouldn't have been one of these, would it, Brian?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/b/b7/Myladyfram.jpg

http://www.supershowevents.com/collection/moj2pics/gb31.gif

http://www.supershowevents.com/collection/moj2pics/gb32.gif


If so they were known as an NSU "Quick" or "Quickly". depending on the market. NSU actually built mopeds similar to these from 1937 right through the 1960's. They also made a "Quickly TT Sports" around the time period you mention that looked like this:

http://www.wehrmachtsgespann.de/logoplace/NSU53.JPG


Hope this helps!

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara)

[Acacia]

Yup! Thats it - although ours was gray. I dont remember all the smaller detail - but shape, tank etc and wheels and only front suspension - right on. I remember more the engine detail on the other side with the clutch housing. Picture a 16mm Dellorto out at a 30degree angle with a large venturi in the place of that 12mm Bing!

Imagine that 'thing' behind a big deal on his new Honda C110, pedals and all, reaching a healthy scream with it's 26" wheels next to them and over taking them!

Good memories! Thank you.

[BMWChef]

Like Allen, when I was a young man I always wanted to ride an old Ariel (There's a beautiful one sitting in our local car museum)...Of course, now that I am much older I want to ride a young Ariel, sorry...Just couldn't help myself.
One of the best friends of my youth had a Kawasaki 500 triple...no brakes, crappy handling, pure extacy.

Mark

[supermotoC]

http://www.terra.es/personal/tarkin/Bultaco/alpina1975.jpgThe Bultaco Alpina you posted was my 3rd (full size) bike, and it was a wheelie KING! mine was a 250, a 1972 MY I think. (I was only 13). Basically trials geometry w/ a comfy seat & high fenders, it was a 24BHP DOG (my next bike was a MXer), but it could go over anything, and it could powerslide like demon. Learning the left brake/right shifter for my feet was instrumental in learning to slide into/out of corners with my feet up. I still prefer right foot shifting, but the rest of the world doesn't. This picture must be of a later edition where they swapped the brake/shifter. Odd..... Mine had AKRONT (tall shoulders) rims & didn't have screws in the sidewalls to hold the low-pressure rear tire from spinning on the rim. This must be an owner-modified bike. The right side kickstand IS stock. The lights were awful, the fiberglas cracked like mad (ie, the tank oozed premixed fuel),and the stupid spark-arrester/muffler thingy would crack & fall off often. Otherwise, a great trials/enduro, with great suspension & weak brakes.

[RiceBurner]

One request, can we be accurate when classifying bikes? 'Vintage' refers to (in effect) pre WW1, between 1910 and 1920 to be inexact, prior to 1910 a bike is a 'Pioneer', and after 1920 it's referred toi as a 'Classic' (those years might be slightly out)


I still WANT a Matchess G80 (AJS Model 7 iirc). My father rebuilt one for a friend and I rode it quite a lot, would match a Norton 500 for speed and handling and was far more reliable than my dad's Vincent Comet (500cc).

[Dallara]

Hey, Riceburner...

Over on this side of the pond they have *VINTAGE* classes for stuff as late as the 1980's...

Vintage, classics, pioneers... What's the difference... Maybe we should just say "bikes older than current"? :shade:


And if you are talking about an AJS 7R, then the Matchless you must be referring to was a G-50, not a G-80.

Here's an AJS 7R:

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/ridesfiles/rides05062703.jpg

Notice the distinctive Elektron cam chain case...

Now here's a Matchless G-50:

http://www.muzej-motociklov.com/museum/exhibit/sl6/matchless_g50.jpg


Notice the similarities in the engines between the G-50 and the AJS 7R...


Now, here's a Matchless G-80:

http://www.supershowevents.com/collection/moj1pics/match1.gif


Notice that the G-80 is a pushrod engine, whereas the G-50's and AJS 7R's were single-overhead-cam powerplants.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - Proud to be Banned Where Annoying Frogs Roam Free)

[fganger]

Allan,

When/if your book comes out, I want to be first in line for a signed copy. You sir, are just amazing.:)

Frank

[RiceBurner]

Hey, Riceburner...

Over on this side of the pond they have *VINTAGE* classes for stuff as late as the 1980's...

Vintage, classics, pioneers... What's the difference... Maybe we should just say "bikes older than current"? :shade:


And if you are talking about an AJS 7R, then the Matchless you must be referring to was a G-50, not a G-80.

Here's an AJS 7R:

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/ridesfiles/rides05062703.jpg

Notice the distinctive Elektron cam chain case...

Now here's a Matchless G-50:

http://www.muzej-motociklov.com/museum/exhibit/sl6/matchless_g50.jpg


Notice the similarities in the engines between the G-50 and the AJS 7R...


Now, here's a Matchless G-80:

http://www.supershowevents.com/collection/moj1pics/match1.gif


Notice that the G-80 is a pushrod engine, whereas the G-50's and AJS 7R's were single-overhead-cam powerplants.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - Proud to be Banned Where Annoying Frogs Roam Free)

I knew someone would try to be clever... ;)

I was referring to the road versions only, the Matchless G-80 was badge engineered as an AJS - I think it was called the model 7 (hence 7R for the racing bike), but not totally sure - friend of mine has one in her garage, and if I had the money and the space I'd buy it. :unfair:

[Dallara]

Understand, Riceburner...

I wasn't trying to necessarily question you, but maybe just your recollection of models. It probably didn't help that I used a picture of a Matchless G-80 CS, which was the "Scrambler", or on- and off-road, model.

AJS did have a pushrod 500cc single that was identical to the road-going only Matchless G-80. It was called the AJS 18. Here's a picture of an AJS Model 18:

http://pembrokeshireclassics.com/shop/images/ajs%207oct%2072dpi.jpg

Notice the AJS badge on the tank and the distinctive pushrod towers along with the equally distinctive magneto drive in front of the cylinder.


Now, here's a picture of a pure, road-going only Matchless G-80 (albeit with an aftermarket exhaust pipe):

http://www.ajsmoc.com/images/m53g80.jpg

Now don't let the fact that this picture came from the AJS Motorcycle Owners Club fool you. Make note of the Matchless badge on the tank and the Matchless flying "M" engraved into that same distinct magneto drive, along with the same pushrod towers and head as the AJS Model 18.

This can all be doubly confusing because at one time in its history the Matchless G-80 was also called the Matchless 16. Doesn't matter... The AJS 18 and the Matchless G-80/16 were one and the same powerplant.

Likewise the Matchless G-50 and the AJS 7/7R... Same engine, same motorcycle, same single overhead cam with distinctive cam chain case.

Here's a picture of a Matchless G-50 (the red one in the background) and an AJS 7R (black in the foreground) parked side by side to better illustrate the similarities:

http://www.tommysandham.name/ajs7r.jpg


On another note... The Matchless G-80 was simply no match for the Norton 500 Manx singles, whereas the Matchless G-50 and AJS 7R were very much on equal footing with the Manx. In fact, Matchless 500 G-50's remained in serious competition far longer than the Norton Manx did, and lived even longer and remained competitive, too, in the form of Colin Seeley's Condor's.

Here are a few pics of Seeley Condor's:

http://www.tga.co.uk/images/newmach/g50new.jpg
http://www.eurospares.com/bsasely.jpg
http://www.motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/91.jpg
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/news04052003.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/twin.zone/Images/Ev%E8nements/Circuit/afam2.gif


Now, if you don't believe the Matchless G-50 had a longer competition career than the Norton Manx, just take a look at these two pictures... They are both of Seeley Matchless G-50 Condor's produced in 1972...

http://park5.wakwak.com/~yumei/Seeley1972.jpg

http://lonestarmotorcyclemuseum.com/db5/00442/lonestarmotorcyclemuseum.com/_uimages/W3004.jpg


(By the way, that second 1972 example (the red one # 346) belongs to a friend of mine - Alan Johncock - who is also the owner/operator of the Lone Star Motorcycle Museum up in the Texas Hill Country. This is one of his regular vintage racing mounts - check out his place at http://lonestarmotorcyclemuseum.com/ )

In point of fact, you can still own a brand new Matchless G-50 Seeley Condor from:

http://www.tga.co.uk/

Who will sell you either a road going version that looks like this:

http://www.tga.co.uk/images/newmach/condor.jpg

Or a pure track version.

You can also get brand new Matchless G-50 or AJS 7R engines (along with newly manufactured Norton Manx engines) from Molnar Precision in England. You can find their site here:

http://www.manx.co.uk/

Here's a picture of a brand new Molnar Matchless G-50 powerplant:

http://www.manx.co.uk/images/g50/g50.jpg


Hope all this helps!

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - Proud to be Banned Where Annoying Frogs Roam Free)

[arkline]

Why lust after a vintage bike, when you can run out and buy one....

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/images/65forweb.jpg
With all the quirks intact?

[RiceBurner]

Dallara, with 1 hand out of action, you're going to beat me on the research side.
;)

BUT, the model 18 AJS is what I was talking about, (got the number wrong), and a well sorted G-80, can 'surprise' an Inter (Norton Manx) rider on the road.... ;) (trust me ;) )

Oh yeah - look up Mick Hemmings on the web - he owns and races the Bob Macintyre G-50 special.

[arkline]

If you really want to have a cracking good time, get one of Micks DVDs or tapes on how to disassemble and reassemble the Norton big twin motors. It is probably old hat to you guys in England, but Mick has an engaging style while wrenching and talking...

Mick is a purveyor of Norton aftermarket items, but has no real web presence for his business which supports Nortons and Triumphs. Too bad, really. Seems like the kind of guy you'd go hoist a pint with.

[Dallara]

No worries, 'Burner...

But it wasn't research that I was doing. I am simply a big fan of Matchless G-50's (always wanted one, or a Seeley Condor...) and positively knew that a Matchless G-80 and an AJS 7/7R were not one and the same.

I have actually almost bought one pure Matchless G-50 and two different Seeley Condor's over the years, but just missed each time. They are still bikes I would like to have in the quiver...

And I don't doubt that a properly sorted Matchless G-80 could be a match for some Norton Manx's on the road... Primarily due to power spread. Far too many Norton Manx owners insist on running the short megaphones and max-sized carbs, etc. on their Manx's, which as I am sure you know makes them peaky as hell, and very *soft* on the bottom. But you can set Manx's up for broader power spreads, too, and that makes them much better on the road.

One of the G-80's problems is that the engine weighs a pretty fair percentage more than either a G-50 or a Manx motor.

Still, they're all good, and I would miss a chance at any one of them!

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - Proud to be Banned Where Annoying Frogs Roam Free)

[Bones]

Frank,
Don't bother mentioning Allan's "BOOK" as I have been badgering him to just admit that he really could author THE definative motorcyclist's book; the multi volume, be all and end all of all books. He doesn't have to actually WRITE the damned thing. If only he would admit that he could be the author of such a book. He won't admit it. But we know.

Meanwhile, he got banned for educating us, elsewhere.

Allan, roam free in the blowing wheat field of Motorcyclist Cafe'. Enrich us. Meanwhile, somebody archive all this, so we can someday collectively put this together and do that book.....better even than Peter Egan's leanings.

Maybe we should start a section called "Dallarisms."

Keep filing through those memory banks and post all those pics. Great fun for those of us stuck amidst bad weather, with months until we have clean enough roads to ride again.

Jeff

[jamming]

Ok, no laughing now..I always lusted after a 48 Indian Chief...the front fender is so cool.

When I was about 14 I wanted a RZ 400. When I was 20 I lusted after a KZ 1000 Turbo, so I built one, The Judge made me sell it:embarassed:

I'm 45 now and lusted after an ST, you know how that turned out, hey it'll be a vintage bike someday.

Roger

[RiceBurner]

If you really want to have a cracking good time, get one of Micks DVDs or tapes on how to disassemble and reassemble the Norton big twin motors. It is probably old hat to you guys in England, but Mick has an engaging style while wrenching and talking...

Mick is a purveyor of Norton aftermarket items, but has no real web presence for his business which supports Nortons and Triumphs. Too bad, really. Seems like the kind of guy you'd go hoist a pint with.


LOL, I actually know Mick personally, until he knows you well he's a curmudgeonly git of the highest order!!! ;) :D Lovely bloke when you get to know him though. :D

Saw him just before Christmas, he was delivering my dad's new track-bike (Comi-racer: Commando engine in a Dominator (Featherbed) frame), and taking the remnants of Dad's '68 Commando away for rebuilding (the frame snapped while my brother was throwing it through Eau Rouge!!)

I have a copy of the Commando DVD somewhere, muist dig it out. :)

[arkline]

Fire+Rice,

Mick does come across as an individual with opinions on the Norton video. Nothing wrong with that, though. His style on the video is very engaging and not rough at all. I'm going to have to get the gearbox video sometime here. If I had the ready cash, I'd be buying one of those alloy Interstate tanks he advertises in the Norton club rags. I understand there is a considerable waiting time...

[DarthRider]

Hey Rice -
One of my buds in our vintage Brit & Euro club recently completed a 4 year project of putting a 750 Combat motor in an Atlas frame...*with* Isolastic mounts.
See: http://www.ntnoa.org/bobcox.htm
I bet your Dad will get a kick out of this.
I haven't ridden it yet but he says it's tits!

Dave