I am doing a little research, please comment.

[Deans BMW]

I am helping a friend do a little research and would like your thoughts. By the way, not at all who you might think it is.

What about a true motorcyclist cafe adjacent to or perhaps a part of with seperate entrance to a new BMW dealership.Filled w/ neat M/C stuff, old pics on the wall, old helmets, you know, neat old stuff displayed on the wall.

What do you think?

[Dallara]

Damn you, Dean...

Where do you get off stealing my idea without me knowing it? :075:

Seriously, something similar to what you mention is an idea I have had rolling around in my head ever since I got out of the motorcycle business.

A nice bar & grill, serving good, but quick and affordable food and having a nice bar area with a true motorcycle enthusiast atmosphere (not a "biker bar"), and all literally attached to a motorcycle shop with a good stock of accessories and spares for lots of brands... And maybe even being a franchised dealer for some European bike brands.

And where was I dreaming of locating it?

Why, in the Texas Hill Country, of course!

Similar to the "Frio Canyon Motorcycle Stop", but much expanded and more complete. I would love to set it up in the Kerrville area, but it will all have to wait for while...

After all, I have a business in Corpus to run, and a home and family here...

But someday...

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara)

[Capt. Blackadder]

A capital idea, old boy. I'd cross a state line or two to visit a place like that.

[supermotoC]

I'd make it a destination - no matter how far.....

You mean the Bear Wallow, dontcha?

[DJ Down Under]

Great idea Dean-O...we have a very nice one here in Melbourne...I'll take some pics of it for you.

DJ

[Brakecheck]

I like anything that sounds like the complete opposite of a new BMW Motorcycle dealership :eusa_clap: Now just add a campground, some cabins...

[aframen]

sounds like a good idea. good food & service might bring in folks who don't ride. folks who might find themselves next door & getting interested.

[Deans BMW]

That would be great DJ.

[BMWChef]

Dean-O,
Sounds awesome! If you build it in Nevada can you also add a hand laundry and a bordello!?

Seriously, It's a great idea. I know when I've helped out at our local dealership by doing the food the riders line up in droves for a little "nosh" both before and after a great ride. How would BMW feel about a dealer with a beer and wine license?
I remember when I was a kid our local priest built a restaurant next to the church (St. Thomas Moore in Littleton, Colorado) complete w/ liquor license to off set the cost of building and maintaining the church. It was a great idea and really profitable.

Mark

[Acacia]

Those things need a certain number of warm bodies per hour, per day etc to sustain themselves - on rainy days too. Anyone done the numbers of how many are possible? Will they attract others besides bikers/riders to the area/store?

Local HD dealers give a free lunch 1st Saturday of the month around here. Do they re-coup that in sales?

[Deans BMW]

I think that having a liqour license associated with a motorcycle dealership could be problamatic from a liability standpoint.

A well run HD dealership should see a 10% net after all expenses except taxes, a car dealership 2 to 3 %. A HD dealership is by far the most profitable of all M/C dealerships

Speaking of the Bear Wallow, I was up there yesterday, beautiful, sunny and 35F.

[geechie]

Yeah, Dean. Sounds like a winner to me.

And Mark, that church. Whiskeypalian, I presume?

George

[arkline]

I think it is an almost workable idea. If the dealership has a good location and there is plenty of traffic around and through, it might be self-sustaining. But cafes and restaurants need to have a certain amount of business just to sustain themselves, let alone make a profit.

[Bones]

Dean-o,
I think it is a good idea for a bunch of reasons. I am just pissed that you are starting a thread dealing with "the right and wrong" of motorcycle manufacturers and dealers in creating the consumer experience! Kidding.

As long as the thing can be set up to be comfortable for visitors, welcoming in nature and the overhead low (not always so easy for establishments that have food involved) and a system whereby the staff does not steal all the cash (another problem in food service establishments where a lot of small cash transactions take place), it will not only fly, but it WILL be successful.

Jeff

[GPM]

There was an article in the local section of the AZ Republic awhile back about a new place opening up on Arizona Ave in Chandler. As I recall, it will be a custom bike shop with a bar and restaurant attached. Sounds a bit like that Texas Hardtails thing on Speed Channel about Rick Fairchild (I think) in Texas.

Anyway, I just learned that it is to be located directly across the street from Victory BMW. Not exactly to your question, but, should be interesting to see it develop.

[DarthRider]

It's a tried & true concept...there are a number of them in the Harley world.
Some with, some w/o booze.
'Course there is a huge difference in Harley & BMW "lifestyle" and in sheer numbers of bikes & riders. The last year we have stats for is 2004. BMW sold a whooping 1.6% of all road bikes sold in U.S. while Harley sold 41.4%! And that doesn't include clones, customs & "metric cruiser wannabe's". Other segments that they both sell in are similar with an even greater market share for...HD. (Cruisers, heavy cruisers, etc.) And that was before BMW dropped their "cruiser".
Harley dudes do MUCH more "social" riding with poker runs, all kinds of charity runs, club rides w/alcohol and just "hangin' out at the watering hole". And are much more willing to mix suds & riding.
Also, the cafe would probably have to be open different/more hours.
Liability? Sure. Probably even if ownership of BMW store & cafe were "different".
Not sure I would want the "new" (by the Harley Marketing Book) BMW *and* the various food & beverage enforcers breathing down my neck.

All things considered I don't think it would work...unless maybe it was in or near a "destination" area heavily frequented by all brands, but then there would likely be more competition. And Harley dudes prefer hangin' with their own kind if given the choice. Without competition it would likely draw more HD's than BMW and all others combined.

Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!

Dave

[Deans BMW]

Bro Dave, I am aware of your thoughts, would be Eurocentric in atmosphere, not large, cozy, filled with some of those posters that DJ posted earlier and of course some of your mounted engine artwork......fun to think about though. A hint of the Ace Cafe perhaps.

[fganger]

Dean,

I'm sorry about this, but I'm thinking along the lines of Brian. I think it is a great idea, but as for it being a great moneymaking idea, not sure about that one.

I've had friends open coffee houses: folk singing and all the trimmings. They had a lot of traffic, but mostly people liked the atmosphere so well they stayed a long time, but never ordered much.

I'm sorry to say I've not read all the posts; my Bonnie has my sorry ass working. Perhaps someone else brought up the same or similar thought. Now if there is a way of catering to a wealthier crowd, or a way of ensuring customers move through quicker. The only way I can see it really working is with a dealer who would subsidize the rent and utilities. In other words the dealer would see it adding to his business and would not mind the added expense.

Here are some additional thoughts on the idea. Now, would I go to such a place? I'm sure I would. Would I hang out a long time? It depends upon the weather and/or how long my bike takes being serviced.

I hope this helps,

Sorry ass Frank :)

[BobFV1]

I would have to see some numbers before I would invest - if the neighborhood had a "Borders" or a "Barnes and Noble" type clientele to start with, that might be interesting, but if it was reliant on dealership traffic for generating business, I would really need some convincing.

I like the bikini bike washes myself, except it doesn't work on BMW's because the girls get water in our Hall sensors and then we become unpredictable in terms of future performance...

(Caution - Link is NSFW!)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.motogoose.com/bf2002/40.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.motogoose.com/bf2002/5.html&h=600&w=800&sz=74&tbnid=narKWoY1LNT-MM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=142&hl=en&start=56&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbikini%2Bbike%2Bwash%26start%3D40%26s vnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

[Deans BMW]

SA Frank, I am kind of thinking along the same lines.


The only way I can see it really working is with a dealer who would subsidize the rent and utilities. In other words the dealer would see it adding to his business and would not mind the added expense.


To perhaps add to the dealer visiting and draw experience, to make the overall experience a more positive thing.

[jamming]

Build it and they will come, there's a whole group of folks who meet Sunday morns out in Cave Creek for coffee, its a BMW crowd and a good time.
Its a good 60 miles from my house so I at least get a little ride in.
Roger

[MidlifeMark]

And even if they don't actually come, they'll at least breathe hard.

[fganger]

Dean,

A long time ago I was one of the main people who started the Chicago Region BMW Owners Association, we were the third club in the National. I also started another BMW club - The BMW Café Racing Society. I needed a place for both groups to get together; I thought it would help both clubs. Both were quite small at the time.

I picked a small restaurant North of Chicago, along a major highway. I decided upon Sunday morning. I did one additional thing; I invited a couple of Wisconsin Harley Clubs as well. I invited other clubs to stop by over the next couple of months

Well, let me tell you, for just about 30 years bikers met there every Sunday. Many times there were over 300 bikes there. I can't recall a Sunday, no matter the temperature, that bikes did not show up. When the snow got deep, only the ones with sidecars came, but they came.:eusa_clap:

On Sunday the staff wore biker related shirts/uniforms, and had more people on then they ever needed during the week or on any Sunday before the “gathering of the faithful.” I'm sorry that for most of that time, after the first couple of years, I was gone. Off to Kentucky for three years and Alaska for almost thirty years. When my Bonnie and I moved back to the area we would go by from time-to-time.

Sadly the restaurant closed a couple of years ago, a number of different restaurants have been vying for the chance to host the gathering. What happened was predictable, the group broke up into smaller, more brand/type specific groups.

So, while I think the idea is sound, there would be lots of stuff to work out. Bob's "Borders" or a "Barnes and Noble" type clientele” makes sense to me. Now if you could also get “regulars” during the hours people would not be coming and going to the bike shop, like for breakfast, perhaps.

Frank

[DarthRider]

I guess I'm not clear on something...is this intended to be a money-making endeavor, a livelihood? If so, I've not seen anything that sounds very workable.
If it's a "club house" or a "hobby business", ditto the kudos and I'll be there in a flash.
Of course the big unknown is....where would it be? Many of the pluses & minuses would change with location & area.
In San Diego catering to Euro Bikers & surfer dudes...Chanhassen, MN...
Daytona catering to Euro Bikes and Harley strays? Big difference!

Dave

[DJ Down Under]

Dean-O...here's some pics of Melbourne own Motorcycle Café...it's called Cafe Vespa.

View from the street...it's above the bike shop.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1844.JPG

As you come up the escalater you first see these old racing pics.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1845.JPG

You can have a coffee and look down on the new bikes.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1847.JPG

At the back of the café you can enter the accessory and clothing area of the store.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1848.JPG

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1849.JPG

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1850.JPG

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1851.JPG

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1853.JPG

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1855.JPG

Dean-O...it's good for leaving your wife or girlfriend to have a coffee while you browse and shop....it's probably nothing like what you have in mind...but just thought you might like to see our little motorcycle café.

btw...pics taken just before closing time yesterday (empty)....and last pic shows Rossie opening it last year (or the year before)

DJ

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic1857.JPG

[huffergasen]

From a practical standpoint, I would check with a liability insurance expert and an attorney that specializes in personal injury cases before getting too far off the reservation. Alcohol and test rides together in the "same shop"? Scary!

[Gord]

I would think that many of the legal and insurance details regardling liability can be worked out. The big question will be whether the coverage you need comes cheaply or at great expense. One way around it might be to locate it next door to a dealership, but on its own property operated as a subsidiary or affiliate. But I am not an expert in this by any stretch of the imagination (in fact I may be making myself sound like Cliff Clavin here....:embarassed: )

To me the real concern here is the business model. Several have already touched on this. If this proposal is intended to help support an existing business, perhaps attract clientele who might make incidental purchases they might not otherwise make, and it is allowed to potentially be a loss leader - maybe even operated only as a cost centre rather than a profit centre - then it could work quite nicely. If on the other hand it must turn a profit and be self-sustaining, there are risks as others far more intelligent than me have pointed out.

[Deans BMW]

DJ, that is kind of what I have in mind, again as a cost center rather than as a purly profit center. As can be seen in DJ's pics, there is no booze involved and again for what I have in mind more Eurocentric than HDcentric. The idea is to add to the dealer/customer experience, ie spouse friendly, etc. All of these inputs are fantastic. I can see a BMW/Triumph/Vespa combo with a Eurocentric cafe somewhere in the mix.

Rest assure, if something like this ever comes to fruition you all will be the first to be invited.


And that ain't no bull.

[the kurch man]

Destination Stop - gotta love it. HD has been doing it for years. I ride with my HD friends to the local HD shops and seems like HD is always doing BBQ's, open houses, etc... and they always buy something. Been to Kegels HD in Rockford IL and they have a cafe attached to the dealership. Real good idea.

[fnfalman]

I think that having a motorcyclist cafe next to the dealership is an awesome idea. But will it draw enough clientele to survive? That's another question altogether.

[Rchop]

Great pics DJ but...a pic of it full of people would be better.

Dean, with all the rules and regs put forth by BMWNA to their dealers regarding the look and design of the store...would this idea fly with them?

Hmmm, I seem to remember a small storefront on San Carlos St. with a capachino machine in the service wait area:045:

[arkline]

Here's the URL for a local restaurant with a spicy motorcycle theme. I've never been there but some folks I know have been, more than once.

http://www.cafeveloce.com/

I know it isn't exactly what you're looking for, but what-the-heck. a little local color.

[Deans BMW]

Randy, good comments. Yes that little shop on W San Carlos, truely a 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag situation, in this day and age not at all what Corp in happy with, on the other hand one of BMW's largest volumn dealers in the US, so with constant hints they give in.

My thoughts involve an entirely different part of the country

[DarthRider]

"...My thoughts involve an entirely different part of the country..."

And therein lies the problem! Nobody knows where/what we're talking about so you're getting a lot of "cool", "gee-whiz", "go for it!", "no DON'T go for it!"
comments based on generalizations.

I can't say it would never work anywhere (and I didn't) and neither can anyone tell you it will.

I'm not pumping you for info. I did an 8-month market analysis and due diligence before getting into the Kawasaki biz - and I kept that very close to the vest. But you might get more useful info by going private with some basic info rather than going public with none.

Dave

[Deans BMW]

I hear you loud and clear Bro Dave. But at this time in the neblous generalization, clarity is evolving, belive it or not. Can't even go private yet, you might say that I am kind of helping a friend. All of this discussion is very helpful however as we are talking about a life changing decision, which to me is very exciting and invigorating.

[socalrob]

Dean,

If the aim is to do a small coffee cafe in a dealership, I think the dealership would profit from having their own customers come in more & also be happier to sit & wait for repairs. Seems like the dealers here in LA don't do loaners anymore, so its drop off the bike or wait. I bet the cafe thing would be cheaper than the insurance for a loaner fleet. The upscale car dealerships like Mercedes in Beverly Hills have pretty fancy waiting areas with pretty fancy beverage makers. Seems to me it would be even better to have a counter server making beverages & selling some pasteries - kind of like a Starbucks in the dealership. 200 square feet & one employee, seems like it wouldn't cost too much & would provide a huge improvement on the dealer experience. In SoCal I notice several LEO's at the BMW dealership every time I'm there, they are doing paperwork & computer work as they wait. Would make a great trip planning area & club meeting space also. I would suggest having wireless internet access, as well as good maps & ride reports of that area of the country. Maybe tie it in with a good MC oriented website, sponsering free food & beverages for all board members? Could be a success.

OTOH, if you aim to make some $$ at it, would need to draw customers independent of the dealer. The right MC theme should work, but that food service industry looks to be a killer to me. Might generate some cash business, but I declare all my income anyway.

[Deans BMW]

Rob, very good, echos my thoughts.

[marko]

Excellent idea.
Our club has a morning coffee every Saturday at a general cafe in the city.

Maybe you could hand out free membership to the local BMW Chapter and offer discounts on coffee etc, or get them to have regular meetings there etc.

How about a free monthly cup of coffee with every new beemer sold, or start your own dealership club with
exclusive viewing nights of new gear etc for the members (New Bike owners who bought from you)
Could become a focal point for BMW riders.
Lots of tie-ins to get numbers through the door.

We have a Harley Themed cafe in Brunswick which had some amazing memorabilia, including a Harley owned by Steve McQueen.
Lovely red thing it is .........but still just a Harley!

[Deans BMW]

There is an unbeliveable wealth of knowledge and experience on this site, keep it comming and thanks for your continuing intrest.

[BMWChef]

Dean,
If you're going to operate this as part of your marketing plan and only cater to your BMW customers...keep them in the dealership longer in hope that they will purchase additional parts and accessories, then I think you could design and develop a small cafe area with-in the dealership and run it as a "break-even" operation utilizing existing labor.
If, on the other hand, you wanted to operate a profitable food and beverage operation that also draws people into the dealership then location is critical. I'm thinking if you had a multi-line dealership ( BMW, Vespa, Aprilia (?)) you would want to be located near a college campus.
The demographics around campuses in the Southwestern United States are very favorable for this sort of venture (Saab actually explored a concept similar to this in the late '60's, although their demographics were in the Northeastern and Northwestern U.S.).
The food would have to be very high quality, but simple, and offer a real value. The reason most restaurants fail is lack of focus and lack of attention to detail. Just my $0.02 worth.

Mark

[Blue Mist]

If the dealer and salespeople can let customers relax and hang out there without an expectation that they will buy every time they come into the shop, then I think it will enhance the shop, create a friendly bond with customers, and get people in the habit of going to that shop. I drive clear across town to get to a friendly shop (and ignore four closer ones that I have tried in the past).

One caveat: the first time some manager-type says to a salesperson, "Don't let those people out of here without a sale" the concept is dead. Then the cafe is just a corral, and no one wants to be corraled.

Let people hang out, check out the bikes and gear at their leisure and buy when they want and it's a good thing. Target the cafe area customers for a high rate of sales and I'm betting the area will soon be empty.

[Deans BMW]

Mr. Mist, I totally agree and welcome to the Cafe.

[JToole]

Great idea!

The local dealereship here in Cincinnati just went under. I've been stopping in there for years and it always had somebody there who had just rode some incredible mileage to get there. I can't help but wonder if they had tried something like that if they would still be around...

I'd say yes, start a trend among the BMW cycle dealerships! Make a safe haven for the long distance rider. Build on the BMW mystique. It's about time it was celebrated insted of residing in the shadow of the cruisers!