Who Is This Guy - Part 2

[Dallara]

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One of our Fearless Leaders, Arkline, had a "Who is this Guy?" thread a few days ago about the incredibly talented, but ill fated, Jarno Saarinen.

Along that same vein I thought I would toss one out here for all you fellow Cafe' Riders and see if you can tell us "Who Is This Guy?", and the innovation he started that changed all of motorcycling...






Have Fun, and Enjoy!

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSPCAPNNOROBCD)






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[fotomoto]

and the innovation he started that changed all of motorcycling...~

Would it be rust or the battery paper weight?:)

[arkline]

Well, I'm walking around in circles...'cause I'm stumped...

He looks like half of my mother's brothers, though...though better dressed.

[fganger]

Shoot, I can't remember his name, however I do recall he made electric starters practical for motorcycles.

[Bill]

Looks like LBJ president of USA.
Could it be Eric's father or brother?

[Arby]

Is it the guy who built the Yankee motorcycle by mating two Ossa top ends together ? Can't think of his name, but it'll come to me at about 3 AM.

RB

[supermotoC]

I bet he invented sun-damaged skin, or maybe the experimental sun-oxidized outer door treatment. He ain't Kenth Ohlins & he sure as heck isn't Brad Lackey.

[Dallara]

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Here's a hint...

That Ohlins part wasn't that far off.

Good Luck!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSPCAPNNOROBCD)




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[Bill]

His eye glasses came from Eye Master, his shirt from JC Penny, his Jeans are Dickeys, his shoes are from K MART, watch is a stainless steel TimeX. How did I do?
Was he the first to make the motor a part of the frame?

[supermotoC]

I thought he might be the "Earles" in Earles Forks - 'cause he ain't the "Power" in White Power suspension!

What I really want to know is, where did he find my old DT-90 frame?

[Bill]

Ol`khovikov Viktor Vladislavovich

[Dallara]

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Here's another clue...

Take a real good look at the chassis in front of the gentleman. That's a big, big hint.

Literally every motorcycle made today (though not most Harley's, of course...) have taken advantage of his ideas and innovations. In fact, his contributions completely revolutionized off-road racing - and I do mean completely. Modern MX and Enduro bikes wouldn't even look the way they do today were it not for this fellow.

Good luck!

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSPCAPNNOROBCD)





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[Arby]

I still have a pair of Curnutt shocks out in the shed.

The person I was thinking of earlier was Joe Bolger.(not sure of spelling)

RB

[Dallara]

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Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a WINNER!!!

Thank you, Mr. Bob (Arby) Baker for you correctly tagging Mr. Charles Curnutt, the Father of Long-Travel Suspensions!!!

Despite the fact that many incorrectly believe that the off-road long-travel revolution began in Europe in the early 1970's, nothing could be further from the truth. It started right here in the good ol' USA. In fact, Charles Curnutt built his first long-travel set-up in 1953 when he modified the frame of his Ariel 200 to accept the 10 inch travel shocks he had built!!! (That's the frame in the picture above, BTW...)

Later, in 1956, he built a Triumph for Hare & Hound racing with 12 inches of rear wheel travel... However, in these early attempts he had hell in keeping the shock shafts from bending and eventually settled on travel in the six to seven inch travel range.

To say he was a bit ahead of his time would be a HUGE understatement.

His ideas, and shocks, were so good that even Honda contracted with him for their Baja efforts, and wins with Al Baker and Gene Cannady were the result.

Previous to the Honda effort, Curnutt worked on his "floating valve" shock on his son's 1967 Husqvarna, but was never quite satisfied with its performance... However, this led to his famous (and patented) "Pin Shock" that was so recognized, and used, in the off-road world with its signature red spring. I had a set of these on my Penton, BTW...

Curnutt was not without controversy, however. His ideas were not readily accepted by some of the press, nor the European MX elite, and he was often criticized - though history has shown unfairly. His shocks were wildly popular and successful in the California off-road and desert scene, but never really made the inroads into MX that perhaps they should have...

I will admit that though the Curnutt's I had on my Penton were the very, very best I ever found for hare scrambles type riding and endless rolling whoops, they could be a bit confused over choppy braking bumps leading into corners on MX tracks, and they readily bottomed over big jumps, even when you had the springing set exactly where Charles Curnutt told you it should be.

Still, much of what we take for granted on today's dirt bikes, and yes, even street bikes, when it comes to suspensions we owe to Charles Curnutt.

He is still active today, and back in 1997 he patented his then new (and somewhat revolutionary) "Air Cavity" damping system. Curnutt licensed this technology to Progressive Suspension, and the "Manitou"-brand *stable platform valve* shocks for the bicycle racing world are the result.

So, when you see any bike with lots of airspace between the rear tire and rear fender try and remember the picture above. Not all innovation in motorcycling comes from laboratories, computers, and CNC machines. Some comes from the mind of brilliant inventors out in their workshops.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSPCAPNNOROBCD)




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[fganger]

Err . . . Allan, you seem to have forgot his other contribution to motorcycling. That would be electric starting of course.:eusa_clap:

Frank







Allan - you are a man of many talents and kinda' handy to have around.

[vintagemxr]

I'd forgotten about Curnurtt but I can recall when his shocks were all the rage for desert racing.

Speaking of long travel suspension, does anyone remember the story of the American guy who held a patent on the basic monoshock suspension design and wound up suing Yamaha many years ago for patent infringement and winning? I remember reading something about it in magazines way back when but couldn't find anything on Google.

[Arby]

Curnutt had a good following amongst the '70's mid atlantic m/x'ers.

He insisted that the spring rate should only support the bike & riders weight so as to properly place the piston & valving to ensure correct damping . It was all about the proper damping, not spring rates.

But, as Allen noted, sometimes big jumps, or rapid stutter bumps (aka braking bumps) would cause the shock to "pack down" on the bumps or bottom out on big jumps.

We started to try to out smart Curnutt by upping our weight by 10 lbs or so, so as to get a little heavier spring when we ordered new shocks, but not so much as to upset the dampening.

Sort of fine tuning for local conditions.

The main thing I remember was he cared just as much about what some middle of the pack m/xer from Maryland thought of his product, as he did if you were some big name go - faster.

At least, that's the impression he gave.

I've got a set of Curnutts set up for a '77 VB 360 Montesa, 180 lb district 7 A class rider if any body needs 'em .

Uh, they might need some new seals or something.

RB

[Dallara]

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Yep,

I have to agree with Arby. When you called Curnutt shocks you got to speak to Charles Curnutt, not a voice menu or receptionist. He wanted to know what kind of bike you had, how much you weighed, etc.... And how much travel you wanted.

And then he simply delivered, period. The shocks showed up at your address COD a couple of weeks after you ordered them.

I originally sort of *chickened out* on going really long travel on my Penton, and essentially got an initial set that gave me about 4 to 4-1/2 inches (stock was about 3-1/2 with the OEM Girlings). I thought they were too soft and undersprung, and after talking with Curnutt on the phone I sent 'em back so he could turn them into 5 inch travel shocks. And though he didn't really like the idea he agreed to stiffen up the springs. When the shocks came back along with them he sent a bunch of what looked simply like silver rings. These were preload spacers, and if you wanted to stiffen up the rear end some more you simply put one or more of these rings between the spring and the keeper.

I ended up with one ring on each shock and ran them for a damn long time. Had 'em on the bike when I sold it, and wish I had the shocks today.

Curnutt was also an innovator in something we all read about today regarding shock set-up - i.e. "Sag". He wanted you to order the shocks *long* so that the seat height settled to stock when you sat on the bike - it sagged down to the proper ride height. I remember him explaining this to me on the phone... He said if you rode over a hole that you wanted the wheel to go into the hole, not the whole bike. It was brilliantly simple, but yet so unheard of at the time.

Now all you hear about in MX suspension circles is getting the rear sag set just right... i.e. about a quarter of your wheel travel should be sag so that the rear wheel goes into a hole and not the as much the whole bike.

Arby mentions seals... Interesting thing about Curnutt. He was one of the first who made his shocks 100% rebuildable, and recommended they be rebuilt at regular intervals. IIRC, Curnutt recommended shock *fluid* was plain ol' ATF. He said it didn't change viscosity with heat and had plenty of lubricity for the task. It was also readily available, and cheap, and Curnutt was nothing if he wasn't pragmatic when it came to cost. Hence, he also built the shocks with seals and packing that you could get at any industrial gasket and seal supplier. Even though my home town is pretty small I located three different places where I could get the seals, etc., so if you want Arby's you can easily get the pieces needed for a rebuild. Rebuilding Curnutt's was dead-easy, too, and no special tools were needed. You could have 'em off the bike, on the bench, rebuilt, and then back on the bike in well under an hour if you were in a hurry.

Try that with an Ohlins or Wilbers today!!!

Curnutt was unique, and there will never be another one like him... Motorcycling was very, very lucky to have him.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSPCAPNNOROBCD)



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[Frenchie]

Very nice and interesting thread Allan! I bought a pair of his shocks for my first bike which was a 1971 yamaha 175 enduro. I can vividly remember the difference they made. The stock shocks made the rear wheel feel like it was suspended by a pogo stick. The curnutts made even a bad rider like me alot better.

Cheers,

JKJ