Worlds fastest Indian

[Deans BMW]

I hear it is a very good movie.

http://www.canyonchasers.net/blog/uploads/indian.jpg

[DarthRider]

Dean-O, when I get time I'll post some pics and stories about Burt Munroe that won't be in the movie!
He was good friends with my friend, mentor and hero Jack Wilson of Big 'D' Cycle fame...Allan and I have discussed him (Jack) many times and Jack had some Burt stories.

Dave

[DJ Down Under]

I can't wait for it to come out here...April 2...I think...do you have a US release date?...I've seen the trailer half a dozen times....ooooh it looks good.

Here's the real deal....pics of Bert.... http://www.biker.co.nz/Reviews.asp?id=122

http://www.indianmotorbikes.com/features/munro/munro2.jpg

http://www.indianmotorbikes.com/features/munro/2_small.jpg

http://www.indianmotorbikes.com/features/munro/munro1.jpg

http://www.indianmotorbikes.com/features/munro/3_small.jpg

It's hard to believe that this guy went 206 mph in 1967.....and he was 68 yrs old...wow!

DJ

[DarthRider]

Feb. 3 here in the "Northern Hemisphere Penal Colonies".
Watch for reports!
Thanks for the old pics of Bert, I hadn't seen those.
Is it "Bert" or "Burt"? I never knew for sure.

Dave

[DJ Down Under]

Bert I think....although it could be just an American way of speling it...you guys do strange things to words like colour and tyres...:045:

DJ

[Deans BMW]

It's hard to believe that this guy went 206 mph in 1967.....and he was 68 yrs old...wow!


Thank God, there is hope for me yet.:058: :041: :082: :angel: :113: :023: :054: :079:

[Tipstall]

Website link

http://www.worldsfastestindian.com/

[arkline]

So, I'm sitting there last night and the ad for this movie comes on. And I think, hmmmmm, looks good to me, maybe I'll chuck work one day and go see it. And there's a scene where Hopkins has fallen off and he sits up or gets up and is laughing like a crazed barkeep and I think, well hell yes, I'm going to go see that, fer shur. And my daughter, who is sitting on the couch, ostensibly doing her math homework says, "Dad, I'll go see that movie with you when it comes out." So, there are at least two of us in Seattle that are going.

[DJ Down Under]

I like the last bit of the trailer were the cop says..."do you know how fast you were going back there"...and Sir Anthony says..."yes..about 155mph".

The cop smiles and says.."Yes..that'd be about right"..(with a big smerk on his face).

Geees!...how times have changed.....:bad:

DJ

[Tipstall]

Big article todays Wall Street Journal, front page weekend section. I'll scan it after lunch and post.

Ken

[Promethean]

Ken,
Welcome back you lucky sod. How was sunny California?

[Tipstall]

I love LA, great weather.

Here is the article.

http://www.geocities.com/massettfamily/FilmReview.pdf

Ken

[fnfalman]

I'm seeing it TONIGHT!!!:eusa_clap:

[arkline]

Just got back from the theater. I think most of you NEED to see this movie. Especially those of your stuck in the northern latitudes where the weather has shut down your riding days.

And you prolly should go see it in the next couple of weeks. Since it is an independent film and it is playing in pretty small theaters in Seattle, it is likely that it will disappear from view pretty quickly. Don't miss it!

It is a great story. There are some scenes with very nice Brit Iron (look fast) and Anthony Hopkins does an amazing job of taking on Bert Munro's persona. I'm thinking of sneaking out during the Super Bowl tomorrow to see it again. Shouldn't be any crowds then.

Lotta riders in the theater including a contingent of Iron Indian Riders whoever they are. My daughter, her main squeeze, Donna and I Were the non-colors wearing contingent.

And I will definitely be getting the DVD when it comes out. Go See This Movie. It'll make your day.:041::041::041: Maybe an entire week!

[BobFV1]

I just saw it too, stuck here in the pissy rain in the Washington, DC area this weekend. Great movie, my son (the older oner - the rider) and I went together! Hopkins was superb, and it was a great period piece. This would have been a great movie even if it was not about a motorcyclist, but that beat up old Indian just made it all the better! Highly recommended!

[jamming]

Sounds like the Arizona members need to go for a ride to a movie theatre for a matinea. What better way to see a motorcycle movie than ride there on a bike. OR...a Drive In on the bike!!!!! i've seen that picture of Bob in the frilly dress...come on Bob, ya want to go to the drive in?:037:
Roger

[Dallara]

You Lucky Sods...

Sometime it sucks to live off the beaten path. From all I have been able to find out "World's Fastest Indian" isn't even going to play here in our backward burg... Even though we have tons of movie theaters... Except they all stick to the same mainstream drivel.

Called three theaters today, and had to go through major runarounds at all three to talk to a manager... According to them "World's Fastest Indian" isn't even on any current schedule for a theater here, damn it. If I am going to get a chance to see it on a big screen I am going to have to drive 164 miles (according ot MapQuest) to a theater in San Antonio.

Hell, it's only showing in two theaters there and San Antonio has a population of over 1.2 million!

No wonder there seems to be no chance of the flick showing in a city of just under 300,000...

Man, I'm pissed...

Allan (Dallara)

[RiceBurner]

You Lucky Sods...

Sometime it sucks to live off the beaten path. From all I have been able to find out "World's Fastest Indian" isn't even going to play here in our backward burg... Even though we have tons of movie theaters... Except they all stick to the same mainstream drivel.

Called three theaters today, and had to go through major runarounds at all three to talk to a manager... According to them "World's Fastest Indian" isn't even on any current schedule for a theater here, damn it. If I am going to get a chance to see it on a big screen I am going to have to drive 164 miles (according ot MapQuest) to a theater in San Antonio.

Hell, it's only showing in two theaters there and San Antonio has a population of over 1.2 million!

No wonder there seems to be no chance of the flick showing in a city of just under 300,000...

Man, I'm pissed...

Allan (Dallara)
That's only a 3 hour ride, what ya waiting for?

;)

[Dallara]

Finding enough time away from my business and family committments...

Actually from here to San Antonio is only a 1 hour 45 minute to 2 hour jaunt - only real way from here to there is double-divided, superslab interstate, and you can set the cruise control at 85 MPH (or more) damn near the entire way...

So, worst case scenario... 2 hours up, 3 hours for movie and parking, etc., 2 hours back = total of 7 hours.

Now factor in a business that is currently always 6 days a week, sometimes 7, with 12 hour days, a fairly ill 73 year old parent, a 15 year old deaf dog, along with a few other constraints at the moment... And it's impossible to find that 7 or 8 hours away to go see it.

Now you know why I haven't got to ride my damn motorcycle since October... Though I have promised myself it is going to get ridden *TODAY*, or at least this evening. I am leaving to go to work in just 20 minutes, but I can't take the bike because of what I have to haul up there and back, so it will have to be when I get home.

Damn... I hate it when real life intrudes on our recreational time! :icon_wink:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara)

[RiceBurner]

Sorry Allen, I didn't realise you had so many commitments. My bad.

[fganger]

My Bonnie and I saw the picture last night. I thought it was wonderful and pretty accurate to what I recall reading in the bike press at that time.:eusa_clap:

Dean, perhaps you and I could rent a blown Busa from someone, just to break the "double ton. :)

Now where are all of my old Cycle World's? :028:

Frank

[arkline]

AMC Studio 30 (http://www.chron.com/c/apps/movies/theater.html?theater_id=2850&mdate=20060205)
12:05 PM, 2:45, 5:25, 8:15 PM
2949 Dunvale
Houston, TX 77063

Angelika Film Center & Cafe - Houston (http://www.chron.com/c/apps/movies/theater.html?theater_id=3854&mdate=20060205)
(12:15 PM), (3:15), 6:15, 9:15 PM
510 Texas Avenue
Houston, TX 77002

Edwards Grand Palace Stadium 24 (http://www.chron.com/c/apps/movies/theater.html?theater_id=6669&mdate=20060205)
(1:00 PM), (4:00), 7:00, 10:00 PM
3839 Weslayan Street
Houston, TX 77027

[taosports]

Saw it last night and have to agree with you all. Good entertaining movie. Anthony Hopkins was superb. Also, whoever did the casting for the movie was brilliant. Where they came up with some of the characters, I'll never know but they were great!

Need to go piss on my lemon tree now...

[Promethean]

The closest theater showing the movie is in IL. :thumbs_down:

[Dallara]

Ron,

Hate to bring it up, but Houston is 210 miles away (verses San Antonio's 164 miles to the nearest theater showing the flick...) so Houston is even more out of the question than SA...

I wish the damn thing had opened a week earlier, because I had juggled all sorts of arrangements to shift my schedule around ot go and pick up the new trailer in Houston last Saturday. I did take my old, deaf dog - Klondike - with me to pick the trailer up... He loves riding in the Suburban. Can't leave him out in a theater parking lot for over two hours, and I doubt they let dogs in. I got one of my guys at work that might be able to check on him and let him out for a fast flash up to SA some night this week to catch the film. Have to see how it goes.

No worries, Riceburner... If I sounded harsh I didn't mean to. It's just that we all have schedule filling circumstances at some time our another in our lifetime's... I'm sure you have been through those along the way. This just happens to be a pretty full stretch here the past month or two, and doesn't look much better for February.

But putting in the time now allows me the time I have set aside for the Hill Country ride in April and to go to Laguna Seca in July, so it's all good.

Hell, the film will be out on DVD later this year and I can always see it then.

Now it's off to ride my R1150R... I'm not into football so I don't mind missing the bloody Superbowl... :icon_lol:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara)

[arkline]

Allan,

Can't blame a guy for trying eh? The movie is a real theater experience. Everybody clapped when it was over. The one's who hadn't had the gigantic Coke and weren't floating their back fillings sat in the dark and watched the credits roll. Ah well.

[Moose]

Believe someone needs bring the DVD version of Fastest Indian to the Hill Country Ride if it is out by then. As a matter of fact it should be required viewing for each Ride we do, sort of the "tie that binds" amongst us cycle pukes.

[DarthRider]

Here are a couple of pics of old Burt's Indian streamliner that a friend sent me. This was in 1989 after it had been (way over) restored and was on a show circuit. I saw it later that year at my first trip to Bonneville.
The guys who heard it run that year pronounced it "The World's Loudest Indian" and I have heard that too from some engine builders/racers...just something about the configuration of the motor.
Jack Wilson of Big 'D' Cycle fame was a good friend of Burt's and he said the bike had a lot of polish, plating and much better paint that it did when Burt built & raced it. He had no money for, or interest in pimping it out and Jack said Burt must be either laughing his ass off at this, or just pissed-off as hell!
After I see the movie I'll scan some more pics and a few more Burt stories I heard from Jack.
By the way, I have read in a lot of the press reviews and other places that the bike was a 1925 Scout. It was actually a 1920 model, making all this jusr a skosh more remarkable. Motorcycles were only around 30 years old then and the Scout probably ran about 40MPH brand new. Then old Burt spent the next 48 years bumping it up well over 200.
Now *that* gives me a woodie!.

http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/55538840-L.jpg

http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/55538841-L.jpg

Dave

[DarthRider]

Miz Betty & I saw the flick yesterday...what you have heard is true. A very accurate & subjective review is the the Wall Street Journal piece Ken posted the link for on Page 1 here. http://www.geocities.com/massettfamily/FilmReview.pdf

But the movie - at least for riders, motorcyclists, enthusiasts, gear heads, racers and especially Land Speed racers - is much more than the sum of it's fascinating parts.

The presence and artistry of Sir Anthony Hopkins, as he has transitioned from our favorite Britsh Uncle to our wonderful British Grandfather really carries the film...have you ever seen him give a bad performance? The movie maker has also managed to make things like Indians, old motorcycles, racing and Bonneville interesting, not only to folks already interested in those things, but to "civilians" as well.

What the film did exceptionally well from the gearhead/racer's standpoint was to provide a quick, shallow but illustrative glimpse into the soul of Land Speed racing. It is not and has never been about "commercial" race teams, huge budgets, corporate influences, pandering to sponsors and over-monied/over-ego'd team owners and drivers. Or being little more than actors on the public stage of show-biz and all that entails. There are no screaming/ticket buying/sponsor supporting crowds at Bonneville. The world really doesn't care much...and that can be a very good thing. No Schumachers, no Penskes, no Umbrella Girls, no Leonardo DiCaprios, no "big money". No hypocracy, no speach makers, no bullshit artists. Just racers.

I have nothing against big time racing, I am a huge fan of all, but...this is different. Pure. Clean. "Real". And I think, better.

Most of the racers have come to Bonneville for years...many 2nd generation racers, a surprising number of 3rd generation, a few 4th generation. Family race teams. Wives & daughters in the 200 MPH Club. Cars and bikes that have been racing at Bonneville and dry lake beds for decades, being rebuilt again and again, bigger motors, faster, more records. More tradition and history. Speed. 300+MPH motorcycles. 400+MPH cars.

What was most unusual about Burt I think, was not so much just the things he did and the dedication he had...but that all those not-uncommon attributes of Land Speed racers were present in such strength and depth in only one, albeit one very uncommon, man. Burt truly embodies the spirit, heart, dedication, soul and courage of the pure racer/warrior.

I've known the basic story of Burt for years, from old magazine pieces, stories I heard at Bonneville and from my old friend Jack Wilson, another Bonneville legend whose racing career overspanned that of Burt.
Here are a few Burt stories:

The movie begins well after his retirement as a blacksmith. He was not an educated man and from what I've heard never attended school a day in his life. But the lack of education actually worked for him as it drew out his astounding powers of observation and reasoning. I think he must have been a true genius to do some of the things he did. This was fueled by his poverty which forced him top learn patience and dedication...and doing an awful lot with little, sometimes nothing at all. Old Burt never had a pot to piss in! Sometimes poverty and ignorance can help produce a truly beautiful mind.

He bought the 1920 Indian Scout new, rode it on the streets for years and gradually evolved it to hot street bike, drag racer, beach racer, hill climber and finally Land Speed racer. He "tore up a lot of shit" along the way, as racers say. The shelf of broken, burned parts in his shack in the movie lettered "Offerings to the God of Speed" was real. By the way, that was the subject of an earlier documentary by the same name from the same film maker in 1971 (I'm trying to track that down).

In the earliest days he actually poured molten aluminum into holes in the dirt floor of his blacksmith shop to make piston blanks. You can only imagine how long it took to make a piston this way and how many failures he must have had.

As the engine morphed to a larger, more powerful, more efficient race motor he made his own connecting rods from truck suspension springs! He converted the little 600cc flathead first to overhead valves and later double overhead cams! And bored & stroked it along the way to nearly 1,000cc. This with no basic education, engineering knowledge, computers, or even a decent set of tools...or any help. What he did have was a "base" engine & technology from which he could extrapolate, and "think" his way towards solutions. And the mechanical skills, patience and dedication to get them done.

An exception to that formula occurred when he converted the little Indian into a streamliner. He knew to achieve his speed goals he not only needed power but streamlining. But this totally stumped him as he had no knowledge "base" for this from which to extrapolate, or even "think" his way to a basic understanding of the problem, much less a solution. What he did know was how important the aerodynamics were (although I'm sure he didn't know that word!) and therefore how easy it would be to get it wrong.

He told Jack Wilson that he thought about this for a "long time", by Burt's defintion this must have been years! One day he was fishing in New Zealand, thinking of the problem. As he fished he noticed that there was one fish, a little smaller than the others that was *much* faster than the others. He had found his "knowledge base"...Mother Nature herself. He caught one of those fish, froze the little bugger, scaled up the frozen body and that became the basic shape for his streamliner! I suspect he may have had some advice on streamlining details, like the little stabilizer fin assembly on the tail, but once again he did it, using what he knew and what he had. In this case with help from Mother Nature. He was also well known for gratefully accepting all offers of help. "Free" was good. And often produced truly "elegant engineering."

The scenes at Bonneville Tech Inspection must have been a fictionalized account of what he went through over time. He did cut a lot of safety corners at first as he had no money to provide them and little interest in them to boot. For instance, actual pics show him in a leather jacket, not a wool sweater. But as he and the old Indian aged, things first got a little better, then slowly much worse, tech & safety-wise.

Towards the end he was a well liked and popular "legend" with people helping him and cutting all the corners for him they could. But he and the bike had become totally dangerous, mainly to Burt but to others as well. His eyesite was bad and getting worse. Once he ran off the black-marked course and instead of stopping, just kept going until he ran out of fuel! Funny but extremely dangerous for several reasons.

They finally decided Burt just *had* to stop racing. No one wanted to tell him that so they decided they would just find a way to fail him at Tech Inspection. I'm sure that was pretty easy to do! But they made a mistake...they disqualified him for some minor, but unfixable, infraction with the streamlined body shell. They thought they had him.

Old Burt just pushed back to his pit, removed the body, pushed back to Tech after changing to some modified, un-streamlined class where they had to pass him. Then the old boy went out and ran 160 something without the body!

They then just had to face the music and tell him not to come back, they would not let him race. Sad & cruel but absolutely necessary.

One minor infraction in the movie, made for the purpose of "cinema" was the speed of his record. This would only be important to a racer but I'm sure Burt would be the first and loudest to object to the way they portayed it. His fatest "one-way" speed was indeed over 200 MPH. But old records are only broken and new ones set if the "average" of two back-to-back one way runs, in opposite directions, exceed the existing record.

His actual record, which does still stand, was "only" 183.568 MPH. His 200+ MPH run was certainly a bragging rights record and he and his bike are certainly "The World's Fatest Indian" but any true racer would never be comfortable with credit for even .001 MPH than they actually recorded. At least not in this type of racing.

This has gone on way too long and I'll stop now. There are a few other Burt stories I can add if there is sufficient interest.

Here are a couple of site links to some Texas based Bonneville racing efforts...where "We don't care how the hell they do it in California!"

http://http://www.saveourstreamliner.com/ (http://www.saveourstreamliner.com/)

http://www.teamtriumphtexas.com/

G'Day, Y'all!
Dave

[Deans BMW]

Bro Dave, great writing, it flows so well and is so easy to read and follow. I envy your ability with the written word. Your paragraph captured the feeling that was had out there but did not realize it, but I knew it was different from any feeling that I had before at any race track. For example when the decision was made to run the ST, paid my fees and all, and quickly realized that I did not have any leathers, required to run, before you knew it, racers from all over brought me their leathers until some were found that would fit, no questions asked, every one seemed to be for every one. Perhaps part of the draw to Bonneville is that comraderie that is built upon the invisible history of amazing accomplishments dating back to almost the turn of the century.


What the film did exceptionally well from the gearhead/racer's standpoint was to provide a quick, shallow but illustrative glimpse into the soul of Land Speed racing. It is not and has never been about "commercial" race teams, huge budgets, corporate influences, pandering to sponsors and over-monied/over-ego'd team owners and drivers. Or being little more than actors on the public stage of show-biz and all that entails. There are no screaming/ticket buying/sponsor supporting crowds at Bonneville. The world really doesn't care much...and that can be a very good thing. No Schumachers, no Penskes, no Umbrella Girls, no Leonardo DiCaprios, no "big money". No hypocracy, no speach makers, no bullshit artists. Just racers.

I have nothing against big time racing, I am a huge fan of all, but...this is different. Pure. Clean. "Real". And I think, better.


Another part of the draw is the shear beauty and magnitude of the area, overpowering in its impact.

We are currently doing a super research of the AMA rules to see if we can get the Oilhead/Hexhead BMW Boxer motors in a different class than the Hyabusa's and the new ZX14 4 cylinder megamotors ie with the other twins out there. The new Beemer motors do have pushrods although they be short. The new R1200S could then easily get a record, with different gearing, HE HE, or defeating the revlimiter, HE HE, we are looking to hit in the 160's with a stock BMW Boxer Twin engined bike. We are shooting for the International Motorcycle Speed Trials by Bub this comming Sept 3 thru 7. I will keep you posted on the developments

[Bones]

Dave,
Great write up. Really enjoyed reading it. It would be VERY interesting to go to Bonneville just to see all of this take place sometime. I imagine that some of the smaller and less speedy classes are just as interesting to see take place as the mega fast ones.


Jeff

[Moose]

Darth, Like you and Miz Betty, Moosette and I saw the movie yesterday. She gave it a big thumbs up and as Arkline observed, many folks clapped at the end. When the credits began to roll one comment rang out loud and clear: "If they made more movies like that, I'd go more." .....clapping.
Going out the door enroute to the theater we decided to wear the cycle jackets. Good decision, it was like a motocafe in there. Great attendance as well.

[DarthRider]

Dean-O -
Re rule book...Denis Manning said it best: There is a good reason they publish the rule book as softbound rather that hard bound!

Jeff -
It's often true some of the "slow" classes are more interesting to watch, especially if you know the rider/driver or the team.
But fast runs, especially *really* fast runs are always much more fun to watch.


Moose Man -
Yup, it was not only a good movie, it was a classy movie in an old fashioned way...you could take the kids, Granny and the preacher and not have to worry. It must be much harder to write an entertaining movie without resorting to the cheap trash, car crash, and blood & gore "low road"...the easy way.
"Moosette"? Don't worry pal...*that* will never get back to her!

Dave

[Moose]

No problem Darth, that's her call sign.