GRAND PRIX RACING NUMBERS

[Wild Will]

I find this tres interesting:

3002 - the total number of GP points qaccumulated by Rossi in all classes of GP. Rossi's Germany win put him over the 3,000 milestone, making him the first in history to do so.

207 - the number of races since all three podium finishers were from the USA - Schwantz, Rainey and Chandler in Oz in '93.

24 - number of MotoGP victories for Vale since he joined Yamaha. Lawson had 26 for Yammy.

9 - number of previous World GP events held in the USA. First 2 were at Daytona in '64 and '65; other 7 were at Laguna Seca.

5 - Rossi qualified outside the top 10 five times in the first 10 races of '06.

4 - Dani Pedrosa is first rider in the premier class to qualify on pole position at four races in his rookie season since Freddie Spencer in '82.

1 - Only non USA rider to win a race at Laguna Seca was Luca Cadalora in '94.

AND, This Race week in history:

5 years ago Biaggi won the German Sachsenring GP on Yamaha.

9 years ago, Doohan won the German Nurburgring circuit.

18 years ago, Lawson won French GP from Christian Sarron and Kevin Schwantz, in what is considered to be one of THE BEST 500 races of all time. All 3 podiums were separated by LESS THAN HALF A SECOND!

21 years ago, Spencer won in France for Honda taking BOTH 250 and 500 world titles! That was the last time a single rider won both races in both classes at a single GP event.

27 years ago Graziano Rossi won his third and last GP race on the Morbidelli factory machine.

31 years ago Agostini won the 500 cc for Yamaha, after Bonera won Pole on an MV Agusta, the last time a four stroke won Pole in the 500 cc class.

40 years ago Hailwood won the 250, 350 and 500 races on the SAME DAY for Honda at Brno.

HOW WAS THAT, RACE FANS???

[Sir Limpsalot]

Trouble is the first "record" isn't really what it seems. Rossi may well be the first rider to score over 3000 points, but there have been at least four different scoring systems.
Untill 1949 the winner scored 10 points, 8 for 2nd, 7 for 3rd, 6 for 4th and 5 for 5th. One extra point was awarded for the fastest lap.
From 1950 to 1968 it was 8 for a win. Then 6 for 2nd, then 4,3,2, and 1 to those following.
In 1969 it changed again to 15,12,10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1.
Currently, of course there are 25 points for a win, meaning it is very much easier to score points than it used to be.
It is rather the same story with GP wins. Last year Rossi eclipsed Mike Hailwoods total of victories........
So he damn well should. There are currently 17 GP's in a season. In 1967 when Hailwood last competed at GP level there were 8. It is now possible to notch up wins in half the time.
GP racing has now become a short circuit scratch, the sort of thing the old GP stars used to do on their weekends off, to supplement their meagre salaries.
Rossi may well equal or even exceed Hailwoods 9 championships eventually, but I imagine that Agostini sleeps sound at night knowing that his 15 titles are unlikely to be bettered any time soon.
Don't wish to sound like an old grouch about this, but it really is easier to compare Apples to Pears than it is to compare generations of racers.
Now Will, as you plainly have access to some pretty good info can you help me out?
I was at the Belgian GP in 1975 when Phill Read set a new race record on the 500 MV at over 214 kph.
That record stood for years and years as the fastest ever race average, but I'm damned if I can find out what is the record now and who holds it.
Any ideas?
Si.

[arkline]

Simon, my man,

According to an article on Wikipedia (a source that may or may not be questionable base on the knowledge of the individual article writers), Capirossi set a record at the tests at Catalunya on one of those red bikes in 2004. 347.4 kph or 215.86 mph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MotoGP

Of course, this isn't a race record, so perhaps I should dig further...

Best to you.

[Wild Will]

I passed up the oppoutunity to get a DORNA printed thick book with all the GP stats; it was so damned heavy and it was so hot out...I'm kicking myself now. My self realizations always come quickly after I blow the opportunity; sometimes even before I leave the room. Next year, by George!

[DJ Down Under]

Thanks for the facts and figures...:thumb:

I think we'll all looks back many years from now and say..do you remember the great Valentino Rossi...I was around when he was racing...he was great.

DJ

http://www.mcnews.com.au/motorcycleracing2006/motogp/rnd11/gallery_f/images/Rossi_06GP11_0439_AN.jpg

[Deans BMW]

And don't forget, the last AMA super Bike race that was won by BMW was in 1978 in Louden, NH. on the San Jose 1000CC R90S. The bike was a monoshock, the width of the Airhead Boxer Motor had been reduced by almost 2", the connecting rods were hand made Titanium. Holding the rods in your hand was amazing, the rods were lighter than the end caps. The bike would put out 106 RWHP, amazing. The engine was located 1 1/2 " higher in the frame than stock, the gears in the tranny were under cut by hand. Both the tranny and rear drive unit were hand lapped. The cam grind was Chrysler Hemi head drag motor grind...and the lifters were, get this roller lifters from a HD sporster. The engine was held together with cylinder bolts thru each case cross wise above and below the front and rear mains. Prolly the most powerful road racing Airhead engine ever built, at Daytona would easily run 165 MPH. I have personaly ridden the bike at 163 MPH on I 280 right near the shop. The Hwy patrol would help us tune the bike by giving us speed readings with their hand held radar. A section of I 280 was not open yet and we would use that as our test track, some members of the CHP would keep people away.

The advantage that we had over "Pops" yosurmara ?? how ever it is spelled, was in handling and brakes. The bike in the 70's cost us over, well over, $25 K per year to maintain.

You could put that bike on a stand in nutral and spin the rear wheel by hand, it would keep spinning almost 5 revolutions. The "S" faring was frame mounted, the bike weighed 360 LBS ready to race, all the bolts were titanium as were the axles.

In those days of AMA super bike racing rules were er...um ...ah...guide lines. Fro example, the BMW had dual rear shocks and the rules would allow the builder to re locate the shocks.....we relocated one shock to the parts shelf when we made our own monoshock set up....on a 77 BMW. Can't remember every thing we did to the bike but I do remember that BMW in Germany was completely blown away. We were competing against full race Kaws and Suzukis of the day. They were 4 cyl, over cam engines we had a 2 cyl push rod engine.

Man oh man that was fun. Chris built those bikes then and he now owns SJBMW still building the fastest BMW today.

[Sir Limpsalot]

Dean, I remember your bike well. I was an avid follower of AMA Superbike through magazines like "Cycle". In fact I had a photo of AMA boxers on my shed wall for years.

DJ, you're right. Whether Rossi is the greatest ever rider or not doesn't really matter, I'm with you in betting that it's how we'll remember him.

Will, welcome aboard the good ship "Missed Opportunity". I've been trying to get off it for years.

Ron, that time for Lorris was his top speed. Reads' race record was his AVERAGE speed for the entire race, flag to flag. Damnit now I REALLY need to know!.

Cheers all!
Si.

[arkline]

Simon,

Well, I'll keep plugging away. While I was wandering around the net yesterday, I ran across that book WW was talking about. If I remember correctly, a possibility certainly, it was 30 pounds or 30 euros, which might be a bit rich for me. Anyway, I'll keep searching.

Best to you.

[arkline]

WW,

Is this the book?

http://www.motogp-resultsguide.com/template/livre.jpg

http://www.motogp-resultsguide.com/

[arkline]

Si,

I've combed the MotoGP.com site for several hours to no avail. They claim that the information is there but I'll be damned if I can winkle it out using their interface. Lots of info on riders fastest laps, but apparently no way to get fastest race averages. I'll keep dragging my net through the net seas, but don't hold out much hope. Does DORNA own all the information?

[Sir Limpsalot]

I've had a couple of long shifts at work and not been able to check in here. It really is just a whim, you see although the Moto GP bikes are WAY faster than the old 500's all the old classic circuits have either been dropped on the grounds of safety or shortened, ditto.
The old Spa-Francochamps circuit where Read set that record had several long straights and several sweepers that a good man in a hurry could take flat out in top. Hence his 214 kph average.
Modern circuits have mostly 2nd or 3rd gear corners, so although the bikes are faster the speeds are slower.
Pederosa's average at Donnington last month was "only" 161 kph.
I have almost convinced myself that Read's record still stands. I will find out and will let you know. Thanks for your interest and support mate.
Si

[arkline]

Simon,

Well, it IS an interesting question. How this style of racing has evolved over the years is fascinating. And when you compare this with the IOM where the course has remained unchanged since Moses was riding around it, you get a flavor of how the machines, tires, riders, and techinques have advanced. We do live in amazing times!

The MotoGP site is fascinating. It can be damned frustrating to pick your way through the bits to find out what you want to know. Maybe I'll just by that book, which I take it is exactly what they want me to do...Lord knows I don't have enough books already...

Best to you and yours.

[Wild Will]

I'm still kicking myself, Ron. But I have such a huge amount of race related (not Samoan vs. Mongolian...) info already, and it was so hot...
BUT, if I was beack there now, I'd have me head on straight and would take a swig of cold agua and grab one of those books!

[arkline]

Simon,

I've found a new wrinkle on the MotoGP site. It appears that they collect information on the top five fastest laps for each rider in each race. An average is computed, but given the information not given, it is likely that the average figures do not apply to the whole race. So, there have been several races this year where that average, of the top five laps (?) or whatever it means, has been over 330 km/h.

Eschew obfuscation, I always say...

Best to you and yours.

[Sir Limpsalot]

That can't be right! Perhaps that's an average of the top speeds recorded on five fastest laps? 330kph is over 180mph so to AVERAGE 180 for a whole lap (bearing in mind most corners will require the rider to slow to between say 60 to 90mph) would need a top speed over 400mph!
Further digging required, I have a couple of ideas where to look.
Cheers chaps,
Si

[arkline]

Si,

I honestly don't believe that these figures are for a whole race. Just the top five averaged. Still, you wouldn't catch me out doing those speeds...Not that I could, even when I was young and more fearless and lucky than I was smart.

Best to you and yours.