Real new RR pics at last

[DJ Down Under]

http://www.repubblica.it/2003/e/gallerie/speciali/bmw-foto-r1200r/esterne031409030307140938_big.jpg

Here's more....wow!...looking good IMO.... http://www.repubblica.it/2003/e/gallerie/speciali/bmw-foto-r1200r/bmw-foto-r1200r.html

DJ

[GPM]

Oh my!! Sure looks like they got it right. Nice grab DJ.

[DarthRider]

I think that's the best looking Oilhead they have made to date!

[Biff's R]

It would look much better with a telelever arm from the 1150R. But I like it. The windsheild looks very good, and the bags would be great. The top box options are a nice plus.

[BobFV1]

Super sweet! Needs a rear fender eliminator and an underseat exhaust - although the stocker low exhaust is more preactical than the old Roadster exhaust, IMO. Also like the 1150 Telelever better - but overall, this new bike is a beauty! They didn't mess with the Roadster too much...

[arkline]

Specs, we need specs - and I don't mean glasses...

These are nice photos of what looks to be a nice bike, but the who, what, when, where, why, and how much come in to play here. I know George is chomping at the bit...I'm not, really, I'm not...

[marko]

Wow
Looks great, but i am glad it kept the basic overall look and is not that far removed visually from the previous model.....which is great because i don't feel i have to go out and upgrade. My bike still looks like this bike at a quick glance.

(They still don't know how to make decent mirrors on a naked bike though).
Those mickey mouse ears should have been dropped long before my 02 model and they still persist with this model.
Still the worst part of a good looking bike.

If that is all there is to grumble about though it is pretty good.

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

It looks like a roadster after a few months of working out and dieting.
This is a good thing. You can really see the lean-ness. I'll bet this bike is a big success.

[Deans BMW]

Notice that the bags from the ST/RT/GT fit.

http://www.repubblica.it/2003/e/gallerie/speciali/bmw-foto-r1200r/esterne031409010307140943_big.jpg

http://www.repubblica.it/2003/e/gallerie/speciali/bmw-foto-r1200r/esterne031408580307140951_big.jpg

Under 500# full of gas, 110 HP........

[jamming]

WOW!!!!!:eusa_drool: :eusa_drool: :eusa_drool: :eusa_drool:
http://www.gsj.jp/Muse/eng/act/gyser.jpg

Now THAT"S a good looking motorcycle. I was really thinking of adding a GS to the stable.....NOT anymore.
The best part is I can use the same bags as the ST....bonus...
Now for the 64,000$ question...When does it get here to the USA?
I've heard September....???????????????

Roger

[Deans BMW]

I'm thinking early last quarter '06.

[popgazer]

Specs, we need specs - and I don't mean glasses...
Someone on forumactif.com posted the following (in french)
http://r1150r.forumactif.com/ftopic2485-0-asc-60.htm

These seems to come from a spec sheet:
- 109 hp
- Weight (dry): 198kg (436.5lbs)
- Optional ABS braking may be associated with Automatic Stability Control (ASC) inspired from cars, a system that prevents the rear wheel from spinning while accelerating on slippery surface. As with ABS, a computer compare the wheel speed and as needed shuts off the ignition complemented with shutting off the fuel injection.

- RDC = Tyre Pressure Control
- The on-board computer displays: speed, avg fuel consumption, range, outside temperature, risk of icing on the road, oil temperature, and gear.

Coming to showrooms on Thursday 14th september 2006

The usual accessories.

Options:
Price in US$ converted from 1Euro @ $1.29
- Chromed muffler :( US$129
- Heating handlebar $265
- Gauge of tire pressure $271
- Onboard computer w/o oil temp. display $194
- Windscreen $220
- Clear lens turn signals $45
- Anti-theft alarm system $245
- Integral ABS $1394
- ASC (with ABS only) $374
- Centerstand $142
- Case Rack $110

[popgazer]

Hey, I think we used up all the arguments about the ABS, now we have a fresh subject to discuss, ASC !

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

Traction control is for pussies!

[fnfalman]

That's one strange looking beast. :037:

Definitely worthy of the BMW marque!!!:eusa_clap:

[Ed K]

You're amazing DJ... how did you find these pictures?

Also Pop, thanks for the specs...
- Weight: 198 kg (436.5 lbs)
- 109 hp

If that is accurate... wow! The 436 lbs must be dry weight; wet would be more like 486 lbs. Still impressive.

As a comparison, the R1200S is 419 lbs dry / 470 lbs wet and the R1200ST is 452 / 505.

More statistics - lbs/HP
1) R1150R - 6.18
2) R1200ST - 4.59
3) R1200R - 4.46 28% power-to-weight increase over R1150R
4) R1200S - 3.85
5) K1200S - 3.27

Btw, looks nice in Silver... can't wait to see it.

[holleywood]

Yup. I'm agreeing with the majority here. I think that they did a phenomenal job with the 1200r. The concept is undiluted: minimalistic, functional, and the ultimate jack-of-all trades. That is the exact reason why I bought my 1150r 4 years ago. I commute on it every day, regardless of weather (ABS saved my butt in the ice last year!) That being said, a lot of the details have been cleaned up, it appears. I am, of course, referring to the charcoal canister, etc. The trellis is kind of Ducatiish, but still looks good, and is still very recognizeable as a Beemer.

p.s., thanks for the nice welcome a few days ago. I've been lurking for a long time around here.

Keith.

[DarthRider]

"...p.s., thanks for the nice welcome a few days ago. I've been lurking for a long time around here.

Keith..."

Glad you came out Keith...so to speak!
Hope to hear more from you, don't forget your profile.
The Cafe is a crazy place at times, but it's home!

[Bake]

The new bike looks terrific, family style still there, cleaner, crisper, and the new engine platform. The thought that it makes 109 hp is good, but to me, frankly, decreasing the weight from about 525 to 435 may be fine for outright performance, but will make it tougher to use as an all-out touring bike. It's always a trade-off with this stuff. The bigger bags will suggest the bike is ready for the long haul, and the engine is surely ready for it. The drawback if you consider it as such, is that being a ~hundred lbs lighter means in the unrelenting winds of the Central US, for example, to tour on this model will be harder to do, and more tiring. Just thinking out loud. Having said that, I could really see trading my K bike in for the full zoot version of the R1200R. I love my K1200RS, but I've always been a Boxer man to the core. Time will tell. Slap a Cee Bailey windshield on the R1200R and I'd be ready to go.

[supermotoC]

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/6781/018fl.jpg

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/1253/020dw.jpg

notice the steering damper - steering head angle a bit steeper??

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/5027/032hu.jpg

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/1521/043fp.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/6696/052he.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8403/075nw.jpg

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3322/113ww.jpg

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/8756/123yg.jpg

http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/4113/163xc.jpg

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9161/095kk.jpg

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/3949/174hl.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7641/183qn.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/6486/206tu.jpg

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7046/217xp.jpg

The hydraulic reservoirs aren't the best looking, but I'll bet they cost less to produce (buy) and saves 4+ lbs off the bike.
The clear blinkers really help the aesthetic, and that oil cooler is going to need some more protection from rocks/birds/debris.
The tank is very Z1/850i styling, with a little Z4 tossed in for good measure.
Flatter bars & lower mirrors (or bar ends), and let's hope the headlight is HID.

no so bad after all.....

[geechie]

I know George is chomping at the bit...

The bit, Ron, is pretty much masticated and macerated by now... pi-toooie.

Thanks to all who contributed pics and specs.

Tastes vary and are very much subjective, but I will be able to live long and prosper with this bike. Weight and HP are (if factual) very much what I've been hoping for. September availability sounds good too. Now how much is it gonna cost me?

[supermotoC]

That's September in Europe. My guess for the US is probably March??

[Dallara]

A few brief thoughts on the new R-1200-R...

First off, I have to admit I was wrong all along about BMW building a new Roadster. I have long suggested that it made no fiscal sense for BMW to have this model in the line-up, and thatif they did build it that it would be too close to the price point of the new F-800 parallel twins. Obviously I was wrong all the way around. Way wrong.

About the bike...

Somebody mentioned that they thought it would look better with the R-1150-R's telelever arm... I thought the same at first, that is until I downloaded the pics to my computer and blew 'em a bit. If I'm correct the new bikes telelever arm is all aluminum, and will look much, much better in person than in those pics. If it is aluminum then the weight reduction and change in resonant frequency characteristics would alone still be worth the swap.

Not too sure about the oil cooler's location... Seems awfully vulnerable down there, not to mention it has to get some heat from the header pipes. Bike doesn't have enough front fender extension to keep rocks, etc. out of getting throw into the cooler, and where, exactly, does the oil cooler exhaust to... Out the bottom? top? sides? Of what looks to be a pretty enclosed *box* arrangement it's mounted in?

Love the wheels! :eusa_clap:

Love the exposed frame tubing! :eusa_clap:

Love the new front fender! :eusa_clap:

Not too sure about the one-piece seat... :doubt:

Bike should pick up considerable fuel capacity given the former space for the oil coolers can be dedicated to petrol now! :eusa_clap:

Not too sure about the looks of the muffler, but love the lower pipe hanging to enable a full-sized system case! :eusa_clap:

I think the windscreen shown is pretty useless, and also sits too straight up... :thumbs_down:

Plesantly surprised that BMW kept such a conventional, standard looking headlight arrangement... :eusa_clap: with some of the things they have been doing with headlights lately as styling experiments it's nice to see they left this one alone...

Am I the only one to notice the following:


- Gauge of tire pressure $271
- Onboard computer w/o oil temp. display $194

Given this translation from the French to English, that the "gauge of tire pressure" costing approx. $271 is most likely an onboard tire-pressure monitoring system? Which I think is an absolutely bargain compared to ABS and ASC! :037:

And that an "onboard computer w/o oil temp display" most like means it is an onboard computer much like the R-1200-RT, and actually comes with an oil temp display mode, which would be outstanding for BMW to have finally done! :eusa_clap: It would also be a bargain if it only adds $200 to the price tag...

Did anybody else notice that ESA is missing from that list of options? There's no *Ohlins* option, either, as on the R-1200-S... Pity. :icon_cry:

Does anybody else think charging $129 to chrome the muffler and $142 for a centerstand looks ludicrous when you'll sell an onboard tire pressure monitoring system for $271 and a full-featured trip computer for $194??? :confused:

I know that MSRP's get all shuffled around from country to country, and that this new R-1200-R probably will sell for less when it hits US shores, but... given the exchange rate quoted here... does anybody else think that $15,480 is pretty high for a *standard* with no heated grips, no chrome on the muffler, no centerstand, etc.??? :eusa_doh: Who wants to bet the bike will MSRP here for closer to $12,000 than to $15,000??? I see $12,999 as the least that BMW will sell it for given the pricing of their other models so far...

If the damn thing realy lost 90 LBS. then that is simply miraculous, and will do more to transform this Roadster into something far, far more than just the sum of its parts. 436 lbs. is seriously pretty light for big shaft driven twins these days, and if BMW puts the GS motor in there instead of the ST tuning then this new R-1200-R will be a backroad weapon perhaps far more daunting than an ST or GS, and might even face down an R-1200-S on the more twisty of roads given the riding position... :eusa_clap:

Here's hoping that's not a plastic cover over a metal tank, like on the RT... :eusa_naughty:

In the picture of the parked, black R-1200-R... What is the little *handle* looking dimple back where the *tank* and the seat meet? Is that some sort of latch or release to hinge up a plastic tank cover to reach some storage under there? Easy battery and air filter access, maybe? :104: (edit - just now saw Collyer's pics and realized those dimples are for the seat to obviously adjust up and down...)

In going through the other pictures on the Italian website I got to really noticing the instrument binnacle... Sure looks like to me that we're losing an analog tach or speedo one, and it is being replaced by something rectangular and digital readout... Sure hope it's the speedo and not the tach!!! :104: (edit - again, seeing Collyer's pics I see that the bike retains both analog speedo and tach in a stacked arrangement, with obviously some sort of info panel adjacent... Fuel gauge, at least, most certainly...)

Is it just me, or does the catalytic converter look significantly smaller, while the muffler has gotten considerably bigger??? Anyody want to bet that BMW has gone to a two-stage catalyst and one is where the old one was and another is in the muffler??? :thumbs_down:

All in all, I like it... And it might be the bike capable of enticing me to buy another BMW... one, thanks to BMW continuing to make ABS an option on this model, and two, if they can keep the price in check. I had decided to keep my R-1150-R alongside my FJR-1300-A... Mainly to keep a lighter, naked-bike piece around for around town riding and corner strafing closer to home, but...

This new R-1200-R, if it is as good as it appears on paper, might actually be enough of an improvement to sing the siren song of trade-in to me with my beloved R-1150-R...

Cool! :shade:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[geechie]

Geez, Collyer!

No, no. It's O.K. Someone has to do it. Actually I was setting up for next Spring anyway. By then Maybe I'll have enough extra for the full Remus exhaust. Wonder what kind of suspension options will be available? Wonder if it can be had without ABS?

And I'm very glad to see the steering damper. My 1100R has one and I've always been a fan.

George

[Deans BMW]

Prolly a plastic tank like on all the new Beemers, same exhaust as the ST/RT, analog tack and speedo. The ST/RT hava a oil temp gage also as std.

[supermotoC]

My guess is ABS will remain an option, but I wonder if you have a choice of integral/non-integral ABS...?

Allan wrote:

All in all, I like it... And it might be the bike capable of enticing me to buy another BMW... one, thanks to BMW continuing to make ABS an option on this model, and two, if they can keep the price in check. I had decided to keep my R-1150-R alongside my FJR-1300-A... Mainly to keep a lighter, naked-bike piece around for around town riding and corner strafing closer to home, but...

You mean the 530+lb R1150R is less than the FJR? Good God, man, that FJR is a steamroller!!

I concur about the telelever - box-section aluminum (hydroformed?) is WAY lighter & stiffer than lead (I mean steel), and weight is the enemy. This isn't your father's BMW....

[Dallara]

:037:
Steamroller... Supertanker...

Yep! The FJR is one portly SOB, just like its rider! :037:

Collyer, I imagine the FJR clocks in at more than 640 lbs. full of fuel (6.6 gallons), coolant, other fluids, battery, etc. You know... All the stuff the Japs don't weigh when they announce the *dry* weight of a bike... Can't remember what Yamaha claims for the dry weight, but it's like 572 lbs. or so.

That's how it got its nickname - "Supertanker"... Ol' FotoMoto here dubbed it that when he saw how much fuel it held and hard it was for to push it around at the pump!

It's long... It's low... It's into mega-tonnage... And it holds a ton of fuel... And it'll carry a ton of cargo, too.

"Supertanker" seemed appropriate.

Of course, the "Supertanker" does house one hell of an engine room, though. Weeeeeeee-Haaaaaaaaaa! Does it have an engine room! Tons of torque, and then even some more torque on top of that. Effortless 100+ MPH cruising... If it were a "Supertanker" it could tow a skier, for sure! :eusa_clap: :037: :eusa_clap: :037: :eusa_clap:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

Speaking of weight, the weight bias of the new Rodster is way lower than the 1150. The combo of less weight plus the lower bias is going to be a sweet handling machine.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/65/138hf.jpg

[marko]

Taken a second look at those great pix and able to see it from all the angles.



I think the windscreen shown is pretty useless, and also sits too straight up..

I agree, looks like an add on and too upright.


I think visually this bike is not an improvement over the 1150R. The oil cooler's on the 1150R are in a great spot and give the bike its distinctive frontal look.
The new 1200 looks like it has anorexia.
The lower down light looks wrong. It looks like it has slipped!
(I actually thought from DJ's first pic it was a Brutale style asymetrical light-which looking at this would have been better on this leaner looking bike)

With all the bags on it looks like a Honda Transalp!

Once again, will reserve final judgement until i see it in the flesh.
At this stage, i keep my bike and look after it as a styling classic that has not been improved visually by the new model. (No doubt mechanically it is an improvement, but my number 1 priority is the aesthetics).

[Deans BMW]

Allan, it is the same instrument set up used on the F800's.

http://www.motorbikestoday.com/reviews/Images/bmw_f800s_1_lge.jpg

[Dallara]

Ya' know...

This R-1200-R could end up being the real sleeper of the Hexhead family. If you were to get one without ABS and its aasociated pumps and plumbing (some shown above in the stripped pic), and then dumped the catalytic converter and the muffler for something lighter (Remus, Neptune, etc.) you might be able to get this bike to scare the hell out of getting under 400 lbs. dry (assuming BMW is telling the truth about the current dry weight, of course). If it has the torquey motor out of the G/S it should steam off corners better than any of the other Hexheads - even the R-1200-S. Stick some Ohlins on it along the way to drop a bit more pork and improve the suspension quality and you would have yourself a true "sleeper" stealth fighter for shooting down squidies on sportbikes... :037:

Anybody else notice that these are coming with Continental Road Attack tires?

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[supermotoC]

The new 1200 looks like it has anorexia.

I dig skinny chicks, man.


Anybody else notice that these are coming with Continental Road Attack tires?

GREAT, tell everybody, whydontcha? Now everyone's going to raise their prices (these are GREAT street/hooligan/sport tires, BTW).

[Bones]

Ya' know...

This R-1200-R could end up being the real sleeper of the Hexhead family. If you were to get one without ABS and its aasociated pumps and plumbing (some shown above in the stripped pic), and then dumped the catalytic converter and the muffler for something lighter (Remus, Neptune, etc.) you might be able to get this bike to scare the hell out of getting under 400 lbs. dry (assuming BMW is telling the truth about the current dry weight, of course). If it has the torquey motor out of the G/S it should steam off corners better than any of the other Hexheads - even the R-1200-S. Stick some Ohlins on it along the way to drop a bit more pork and improve the suspension quality and you would have yourself a try "sleeper" stealth fighter for shooting down squidies on sportbikes... :037:

Anybody else notice that these are coming with Continental Road Attack tires?

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)



Well, to me, this is the best looking of the new hex heads in PHOTOS, so far. In person, all of the hexhead bikes (and new K's, for that matter) look much, much better than they do in photos. SO, I am betting the new R will look gorgeous in person.

I like the fact that they have kept the essence of what the roadster is, updated it with the new engine and lightened it (which is what the 1150R needed more than anything else). I like the looks of the oil cooler down where it is. Whether or not it will work there will be told by time...but I bet it will.

The main problem with the R and touring with it has been air flow. There was no way to get halfway quiet air and some air protection. If you went naked or fly screen, the flow was OK, but if you wanted to ride 10 hour days, you would take a beating. That will clearly still be an issue for the new R. But really, if one wants a truly naked bike and the ever disappearing styling of a standard roadster, the choices are getting slim to none.

In terms of beating up on sportbike riders on the street: hell, the 1150R could do that in the hands of a capable rider, if turns were involved. And if no turns were involved, who cares? Any moron can go fast in a straight line. I know I can. So, I absolutely guarantee the new R, right out of the box, will do even better.

I am still enjoying the love affair I am having with the 1200GS, which, BTW, has the best combo of wind protection, quiet and non turbulent air and still being a naked bike, that I have encountered. We know the GS's are weird looking, but that it OK by me. The new R will, no doubt, turn in quicker, but it will trade off some stability with throttle activation. I seriously doubt there is another bike on the planet that will turn, overall, better than the GS...but I will be happy to test ride the new R just to prove or disprove my theory.

Jeff

(No ABS.....put the $ into the cases!)

[DarthRider]

"...Anybody else notice that these are coming with Continental Road Attack tires?..."

"...GREAT, tell everybody, whydontcha? Now everyone's going to raise their prices (these are GREAT street/hooligan/sport tires, BTW)..."

They sure as hell kick ass on a 1050 Speed Triple! Every bit as good as the standard Michelin Pilot Powers. And at 1500+ miles on the Speedy with lots of wheelies and full throttle everywhere/all the time, they are just the slightest bit flat-spotted.

I'll report what mileage I get on the Contis...4,000 on the Michelins.

[Promethean]

Bloody hell ! That's a good looking bike. I'm going to have to suppress that itch to go out and drool over the bike when it hits the showrooms.

[socalrob]

I like the looks. The oil coolers may have been moved because they had to grow in size to cool the higher output engine. Also gets the weight bias a bit lower.

I'm unclear on why traction control is needed on this bike. Is the rear wheel really going to be subject to spinning on throttle at any time unless the rider is very hamfisted? I could see the traction control on a bike with 150 plus HP, but not sure on this one.

I'd rather see the trick suspension options from the S.

I do like the steering stabilizer, not sure I like that its needed.

[DarthRider]

I'd guess the traction control would be for limited traction conditions, like wet streets, rather than spinning up the tire coming out of corners.
Like all the gimcrackery-tomfoolery on Betty's new Ford 500. Perfect, "safe" car for she who refuses to "learn to drive" after lo, all these many years, but an absolute snoozer car for anyone who can drive.
So happy to see Der Faderland still saving us from ourselves...whether we asked for it or not. And continuing to price out many of their formerly faithful.

[jamming]

I wonder what the price is WITHOUT ABS or traction control, tire air pressure sensors, but WITH a centerstand.
What I want is a base R with a shield.
They keep it 11 ish and it'll be a hit. I already have the bags.

Roger

[geechie]

This R-1200-R could end up being the real sleeper of the Hexhead family. If you were to get one without ABS and its aasociated pumps and plumbing (some shown above in the stripped pic), and then dumped the catalytic converter and the muffler for something lighter (Remus, Neptune, etc.) you might be able to get this bike to scare the hell out of getting under 400 lbs. dry (assuming BMW is telling the truth about the current dry weight, of course). If it has the torquey motor out of the G/S it should steam off corners better than any of the other Hexheads - even the R-1200-S. Stick some Ohlins on it along the way to drop a bit more pork and improve the suspension quality and you would have yourself a try "sleeper" stealth fighter for shooting down squidies on sportbikes...

Anybody else notice that these are coming with Continental Road Attack tires?

Bing-freakin-go, baby. My so-called life is lookin' better all the time!

George

[Capt. Blackadder]

Nice job on this new R, I like it a lot. I still like my R1150R better in the looks department, but I'll reserve final judgment for when I see the new bike in the flesh. Of course, looks don't matter much once you're on the bike and rolling, and it's awfully hard to argue with far less weight and a much more powerful motor! Beauty is as beauty does.

As for why this bike has ASC, maybe it just wasn't ready until recently and this model was the first one they could slap it on. It probably wouldn't be useful to me, here in the always-sunny, always-dry Phoenix area, so I'd rather see some suspension options. If they were to offer a $600 fully adjustable Ohlins package, like on the R1200S, I'd be all over that action.

Does anyone know what the fuel capacity is, now that the twin oil coolers are gone? If it picked up a gallon or so, that'd be great, and with the improved fuel economy of the Hexhead we'd be looking at a range of 250 miles probably.

Now for the crux of the biscuit: Would I buy one? Possibly... the specs certainly look promising and I still like the concept of a do-it-all roadster type bike. The thing is, my R1150R will be paid off next year, and I'm ready for something different... and this new R isn't that much different. I'll probably keep my R and add a dual-sport, like a KLR650 or a DR650, or go nuts and get a full-on sport-touring machine, like the new Moto Guzzi 1200 Norge, or an FJR.

Ah, the sweet pain of having too many choices. :eusa_dance:

[Tipstall]

I like it. Would I buy one? Maybe. I've been toying with the idea of getting a GS. The plan was

1.) Loose the KLX, (just not fun to ride on the street), and get a KTM, maybe the 640 Adventure, keep the R.

2.) Loose both (KLX and R) and get a GS, my dirt riding is mainly mellow and when I ride with the kids they wear out and we have two bikes, the 50 is fun.

I like a street bike that looks like a street bike, the GS looks great as an adventure bike but not as a street bike. I don't know why that matters to me but it does.

Ken

[supermotoC]

The 640 Adventure will beat you to death (vibes) on the street, it's a 10/90 street/dirt bike. The KLX is too wimpy for the street, maybe an XR650L (or R, if you really want to go fast offroad). The GS is fine for dirt roads/dual track, but you going to want some offroad skills to tackle single track trail riding on a GS (and better tires). KLR might do you right - cheap, too.

http://www.kawasaki.com/kawasaki_main/images/products/MOTORCYCLE/2797_1024.jpg

[Dallara]

KLR's are magic... Really.

Literally been in production for more than 20 years. No major changes. Like a Zippo lighter or the 1911 Colt - they just got it right the very first time and it's hard to improve on the basic concept.

Oh sure, you can do all sorts of mods to a KLR, just like you can a 1911, but in the end the basic package has to be right, and it is in the KLR. It may not be the best at any one thing, but it is certainly a motorcycle that is far, far greater than the sum of its parts. You really can't go wrong with one if you want something you can truly ride both on and off-road. No other motorcycle exists that is closer to that magical and elusive 50/50 mix...

And they are as reliable as anvils.

Just my two yen...

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[Deans BMW]

Complete specs for the new R1200R. Please note that the new R will weigh less than my ST and have lower overall gearing with the same motor......a super fun bike to ride.


The power unit – powerful and refined.
The power unit is based on the two-cylinder with balance shaft featured for the first time in the BMW R 1200 GS and corresponds in the present version to the engine already to be admired in the BMW R 1200 RT.

Compared with the R 1150 R, the new Roadster offers almost 28% more power at a higher engine speed and approximately 17% more torque.
And at the same time the engine is 7% lighter than its predecessor and particularly smooth and sophisticated, reducing vibrations to a minimum.

The latest generation of electronic CAN-bus engine management makes this modern power unit even more comfortable and smoother on the road. In particular, this superiority is ensured by automatic idle speed control, automatic choke, and anti-knock control allowing the use of lower-grade fuel. To develop its maximum output of 80 kW/109 hp at 7,500 rpm and peak torque of 115 Nm/85 lb-ft at 6,000 rpm, the flat-twin requires 98 RON premium plus fuel. Running on 95 RON premium fuel, in turn, engine output is slightly lower.

The six-speed gearbox with helical gears featured in the R 1200 R also comes from the RT, combining a snug and gentle gear mesh with superior running smoothness. Contrary to the touring model, the drive shaft on the R 1200 R features a shorter secondary transmission ratio of 2.75:1 (RT: 2.62:1), meaning that sixth gear is an active riding gear and does not serve merely as a kind of overdrive or economy gear.

Suspension technology of the highest standard.
Like its RT and ST counterparts, the BMW R 1200 R features a two-piece frame integrating the engine as a load-bearing element. While the front half of the frame comes from the RT, both the steering head angle and wheel castor have been specifically modified to meet the demands made of the new Roadster. A brand-new feature is the rear tubular spaceframe structure lighter in weight than comparable com­ponents and helping to give the rear section of the machine its light and nimble appearance.

The wheels run on the latest-generation Telelever and Paralever suspension units carried over from BMW’s other Boxers. Making an important contribution to the Roadster’s stable riding behavior and smooth handling, this superior suspension gives the R 1200 R even greater agility on winding roads than on the former model and at the same time meets all the expectations of the touring rider in terms of motoring comfort and smooth performance.

The rider often taking along various loads and thus subjecting his machine to different weight conditions will be thrilled by the optional ESA Electronic Suspension System enabling the him – or her – to conveniently adjust spring and damper rates electronically at the touch of a button.

High-performance brake system and new generation of Integral ABS.
Featuring two floating brake discs measuring 320 millimeters or 12.6´´ in diameter as well as two four-piston fixed callipers on the front wheel,
the BMW R 1200 R is perfectly suited for powerful deceleration whenever required. Pressure is built up via slender, high-quality flexible-steel brake lines also featured on the two-piston floating calliper acting on the rear wheel brake discs measuring 265 millimeters or 10.4´´ in diameter.

A special feature available straight from the factory is the latest generation of BMW Motorrad Integral ABS, which may even be combined as an option with ASC Automatic Stability Control from 2007.

Instruments.
The combination of instruments on the new R 1200 R is again typical of a genuine Roadster: Two analogue circular dials positioned above one another, as well as a digital LCD display, inform the rider at a glance on his current road speed, engine speed, overall mileage, trip mileage, gear in mesh, and the time. And as an option the instrument cluster may be further enhanced by an on-board computer offering additional information. Again, further details in this context are provided in the section on Optional Extras and Special Equipment.

Single-Wire-System (SWS) with CAN-bus technology.
As on the other models in BMW Motorrad’s current R- and K-Series, the electrical and electronic components on the R 1200 R communicate with one another via a modern data bus network, with digital infor­mation being transmitted through one single wire.

Introduction of the Single-Wire-System has dramatically simplified the entire structure and configuration of the on-board electrics, reducing the number of cables and connections and significantly lowering the weight of the entire electrical system. A further point is that only this technology allows reliable, comprehensive and rapid trouble­shooting and diagnostic functions. It also enables the service technician to read data and/or re-define existing parameters. And last but not least, the Single-Wire-System allows simple and straightforward adaptation of special electronic equipment enhancing the motorcycle’s wide range of functions.

Yet another major advantage this modern technology offers the customer is the option to retrieve all kinds of information quickly and conveniently via the instrument cluster in the ----.

Electronic immobilizer.
To make sure that the new R 1200 R remains in the hands of its rightful owner at all times, an electronic immobilizer comes as standard on the new Roadster and is fully integrated in the data bus network described above. Like on a modern car, the ignition key incorporates a coded data chip communicating via a ring aerial in the ignition lock with the electronic engine management. Verifying the data exchanged in this way, the system clears the ignition and fuel supply for instant use once the data has been confirmed and then allows the rightful rider to start the engine.

Ergonomics and step arch length.
To ensure maximum comfort and freedom of movement, BMW Motorrad’s designers and engineers have focused consistently on the so-called step arch length in the configuration of the seat. This figure defines the distance between the rider’s two footprints on the ground – measured via the inner length of the rider’s legs – and also takes the shape and width of the seat into account.

Being particularly slender at the front, the seat ensures excellent ground contact and gives the rider a much more relaxed knee angle compared with the previous model. This also applies to the passenger, who again enjoys the high standard of seating comfort so typical of a BMW.

The standard seat is 800 millimeters or 31.5´´ in height, step arch length is 1,800 millimeters or 70.9´´. And to cater for significantly smaller or taller riders, the new R 1200 R is available as an option with a low (seat height 770 mm/30.3´´) or high (seat height 830 mm/32.7´´) double seat as an
optional extra.

Design and color concept.
The new BMW R 1200 R is a truly timeless, classic Roadster with ex­cellent all-round qualities and unique character now further enhanced by the machine’s even higher level of dynamic performance. So it is only natural to reflect these superior features clearly and convincingly in the design of the motorcycle.

Compact in its overall proportions, the new R 1200 R consciously features body components reduced in terms of their form and style in order to highlight the technical features of the drivetrain and, in particular, of the power unit. In its high-class look, the headlight also pays tribute to classic motorcycle design then carried forward to the most modern and advanced technology through the free-form reflectors. Indeed, close integration of the headlight into the overall line of the motorcycle creates an almost “bullish” front end harmonizing smoothly with the slender proportions of the rear section. Even the elegant case support available as an optional extra blends smoothly with this formal and design language. From the rear, finally, the looks of the BMW R 1200 R are dominated by the Paralever as another fea­ture so typical and characteristic of BMW.

The optical “lightness” of the new R 1200 R also comes out clearly from the rider’s perspective: With the radiator at the side having been dropped,
the entire tank area is now a lot more compact and slender. And being made of sheet metal in genuine BMW tradition, the fuel tank also highlights the classic design and style of the entire machine.

Last but certainly not least, the color concept again accentuates the character of the new BMW R 1200 R, the three color variants available as an option interpreting the classic roadster theme in a very dif­ferent, distinctive manner.

Paintwork in Night Black non-metallic highlights the straightforward character and honesty of the new Roadster. And the discerning rider opting for double decal line finish painted in white by a skilled hand as an op­tional extra can be sure to receive a truly classic BMW in its looks and appearance.

Crystal Grey metallic is an innovative color scheme changing consistently in its look as a function of the angle of light, and thus emanating a particularly sophisticated, elegant and modern touch at all times.

As a more “technical” color, Granite Grey metallic highlights in par­ticular the shapes and lines of the Roadster. Undisturbed by reflections and unwanted light effects, this highly attractive color guides the eye of the observer to the essential: to a purist and modern all-round machine.

Range of Equipment.

Optional extras and special equipment.
As a classic Roadster in unique design and with outstanding, dynamic all-round qualities, the new R 1200 R definitely ranks alone in its segment. And through its very concept, it concentrates from the start on the essential: sheer riding pleasure of the highest calibre.

BMW Motorrad nevertheless once again offers a very wide range of additional features for the new Roadster, catering for the rider who wishes to personalize his – or her – BMW. Indeed, this wide range of superior features meets even the most demanding customer wishes and preferences.

BMW Motorrad demonstrates its leadership in the area of active safety through the new generation of Integral ABS available as an option. This new generation of ABS brake technology, just like BMW Motorrad’s unique ASC anti-spin control, is indeed making its world debut in the R 1200 R.

Apart from other almost classic features already to be admired on BMW Motorrad’s other models such as the main stand, heated handles, an anti-theft warning system, cylinder protection hoops or a chrome-plated exhaust, the discerning customer also has the choice of numerous innovative technologies ranging from the on-board com­puter through ESA Electronic Suspension Adjustment all the way to the navigation system. A wide range of options, therefore, for even greater comfort or enhanced functions.

Sophisticated components upgrading the looks of the machine, such as aluminium parts finished in chrome or milled from a complete block,
are also being prepared to additionally highlight the unique and classic character of this Boxer Roadster.

Optional extras.
• BMW Motorrad Integral ABS (partly integral)
• BMW Motorrad ASC (with ABS only)
• ESA Electronic Suspension Adjustment
• TPC tyre pressure control* (in preparation)
• On-board computer
• Case supports*
• Sports windshield*
• Double seat bench, low (seat height 770 mm/30.3´´)*
• Double seat bench, high (seat height 830 mm/32.7´´)*
• Center stand*
• Anti-theft warning system*
• Heated hand grips*
• White Turn Signals*
• Exhaust system, chrome-plated
Products marked with an * are also available as special equipment from BMW Motorcycle Dealers.

ESA Electronic Suspension Adjustment.
As an option the rider is able to conveniently vary the suspension of his R 1200 R simply by pressing a button on the handlebar, adjusting the set-up of the springs and dampers by an electric motor in the optional ESA spring struts.

This adjustment function is available even while riding, with the system functions being the same as on the R 1200ST and R 1200 RT.

ESA offers a high standard of comfort in control and ensures optimum adjustment of spring elements to the rider’s particular style of riding
and load conditions at any given point in time. The system also takes the higher standard of riding dynamics on the Roadster into account and
makes a significant contribution to superior riding safety.

TPC tyre pressure control.
Optional TPC tyre pressure control makes a significant contribution to the high standard of riding comfort and safety by reliably informing the rider of the current level of tyre pressure. And since the rider is able to conveniently display the data required in the ---- at the touch of a button, there is no need to stop, say, at a filling station to adjust tyre pressure in a laborious process often involving dirty fingers.

The data required for tyre pressure control comes from sensors in the wheels.

TPC also features an active warning function: As soon as the system recognizes a relevant deviation from the pressure required, a yellow information light or, in the event of a greater deviation, a red warning light automatically informs the rider of the current status.

TPC is scheduled for introduction in late 2006 and will then be avail­able straight from the factory and may also be retrofitted as special equipment.

On-board computer.
The on-board computer available as an optional extra enhancing the wide range of functions already offered by the instrument cluster featured as standard, is a very practical companion on the road. Merely pressing a button on the handlebar, the rider is able to call up all kinds of information then presented in the display. This includes bar displays presenting the fuel supply and engine oil temperature as well as gauges showing the range still remaining on the fuel in the tank, the rider’s average speed, average fuel consumption, and the ambient temperature. And as another very important feature the on-board computer informs the rider of the risk of black ice once the outside temperature drops to 3 °C (37.5 °F) or below.

Case support.
The new BMW R 1200 R is available straight from the factory with an elegant case support specifically matching the slender rear design of the machine and thus not impairing the overall looks of the motorcycle in any way. An alternative is the special equipment case support featuring an additional luggage rack.

Sports windshield.
It almost goes without saying that the sports-minded rider opting for the new R 1200 R has no reason to forego adequate protection from wind and weather, particularly as the new machine is far more dynamic than its predecessor. This efficient protection is provided by the sports windshield which, despite its small dimensions, efficiently guides wind and weather away from the rider. The scratch-proof surface, in turn, ensures lasting transparency and maintains the good looks of the windshield at all times.

The rider with a greater focus on riding comfort also has the choice of a high-rise windshield available exclusively as special equipment and described in greater detail in the section on SE.

Double seat bench low and high.
To offer both the somewhat shorter and the taller rider an optimum seat­ing position, BMW Motorrad is able to provide both a lower (seat height
770 mm/30.3´´) and higher (seat height 830 mm/32.7´´) seat bench. And whatever version the rider chooses, these special seats come as
a no-cost option when ordered straight from the factory.

Direction indicators in white LED technology.
The BMW R 1200 R will soon be available with white direction indicators in LED technology scheduled for introduction as of early 2007 and then fitted either at the factory or by the BMW Motorcycle Dealer. Up to that point in time the machine can be ordered as an option with conventional white direction indicators.

Special equipment.
• System cases
• Inner bags for system cases
• Topcase, small
• Inner cases for topcase, small
• Sports softbag, small/large
• Tankbag
• Case support*
• Case supports, left/right, with luggage rack
• Heated handles*
• Main stand*
• Anti-theft warning system*
• Double seat bench, high or low*
• Windshield, high
• Sports windshield*
• Sports windshield in sundim glass
• Power socket, retrofittable
• TPC tyre pressure control* (in preparation)
• BMW Motorrad Navigator III
• Motorcycle cover
• Optical embellishment components (in preparation):
• Fork bridge cover caps in lathed aluminium
• Telelever cover caps in lathed aluminium
• Hand levers left and right, milled
• Handle bar clamp support, one-piece
• Paralever bar, milled
• Cylinder head covers, chrome-plated
• Custom mirrors, chrome-plated
Products marked with an * are also available from the factory.

Specifications

R 1200 R
Power Unit
Capacity cc 1,170
Bore/stroke mm 101/73
Max output kW/hp 80/109
at rpm 7,500
Max torque Nm/lb-ft 115/85
at rpm 6,000
Configuration Boxer
No of cylinders 2
Compression ratio/fuel grade 12.0/premium plus
Valve/gas control HC (high camshaft)
Valves per cylinder 4
Valve dia, intake/exhaust mm 36/31
Fuel supply Electronic intake manifold injection BMS-K
Emission management Fully controlled three-way catalytic converter

Electrical System
Alternator W 600
Battery V/Ah 12/14 maintenance-free
Starter kW 1.2

Power Transmission/Gearbox
Clutch Single-plate dry clutch, dia 180 mm
Gearbox Dog-shift six-speed gearbox
Primary transmission 1.882
Gear ratios I 2.277
II 1.583
III 1.259
IV 1.033
V 0.903
VI 0.805
Drive shaft
Final drive ratio 2.75

Suspension and Running Gear
Frame Tubular steel spaceframe, load-bearing engine
Suspension, front BMW Telelever
Suspension, rear BMW Paralever
Spring travel, front/rear mm 120/140
Castor mm 119.1
Wheelbase mm 1,495
Steering head angle ° 62.9
Brakes front Double disc brake, dia 320 mm
rear Single-disc brake, dia 265 mm
BMW Motorrad Integral ABS as an option
Wheels Cast wheels
front 3.50 x 17
rear 5.50 x 17
Tyres front 120/70-ZR 17
rear 180/55-ZR 17

Dimensions and weight
Length, overall mm 2,145
Width, overall, with mirrors mm 872
Seat height mm 800
Weight, dry kg 198
DIN unladen weight with full tank kg 223
Weight, max permissible kg 450
Tank capacity ltr 18

Performance
Fuel consumption
90 km/h ltr/100 km 4.1
120 km/h ltr/100 km 5.5
Acceleration
0–100 km/h sec 3.6
Top speed km/h 200 plus
_________________

[DJ Down Under]

Thanks Dean-O.....looks like the tank capacity has got a little smaller...and it's a shame they didn't use the fork off the 'S' instead of the old Roadster.

DJ

[Dallara]

And the fantastic stories of massive weight loss were a bit misleading...




Weight, dry kg 198
DIN unladen weight with full tank kg 223




198 Kg dry is approx. 445 lbs., which sounds wonderful, but...

223 Kg DIN unladen weight with a full tank??? Folks, that's right at 502 lbs., and 18 liters of fuel is only 4.75 gallons... Gasoline weighs about 6.75 lbs. a gallon, so 4.75 gallons of fuel would weigh about 32 lbs.

Now let's see...

502 lbs. (DIN unladen weight with a full fuel tank) minus 445 lbs. (BMW claimed dry weight) equals 57 lbs.... Now only 32 lbs. of that is gasoline, so are they trying to convince us that a small amount of various hydraulic fluids for suspension, brakes, clutch, etc., along with oil in engine and gear lube in the transmission and final drive weigh 25 lbs.???

So the bike is carrying what amounts to 3.7 gallons of various hydraulic fluids and lubricants???

Something's rotten in Denmark, methinks...

And 502 lbs. is not THAT much lighter than the current Roadster... and certainly not a hundred pounds less.

Still, a nice bike, with nice power... But the loss of fuel capacity is a bit off-putting to me, too, DJ.

And it appears that BMW plays just as fast and loose with the truth as Yamaha does with "wet" and "dry" weights! :104:

Now, anybody want to guess what the suggested retail price is going to be???

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[Road Dog]

Let me see if I have this right?

4.7 gal fuel capacity
43 Mpg @ 75 Mph
202 mile range to pushing

This isn't good - it needs more range.

[arkline]

Figure a half gallon not really available for use and the range is around 242 at 55 mph and 178 or so at 75 mph. Where any of the folks on this board would ride at 55, let alone 75, is left as an exercise for the reader...

[supermotoC]

1 gallon of room temp gasoline = 6.25lbs

18liters = 4.75gallons

4.75gal * 6.25lbs = 29.6875 (29.7)lbs of fuel

198kg = 436lbs

223kg = 491lbs

491-436=55lbs!!! 55-29.7 = 25lbs of what??

Oil weighs a bit, maybe they had bags/shields/ABS/ASC/ESA/top case & all options mounted??

Still, it's a LOT lighter, (dry weight of the R1150R was what - 525?) and who cares about mileage? I knew I could get 218miles to pushing on my 2002R, and that was after going 90MPH across N Texas towards Amarillo. Unless you're going to go across the Sahara, don't worry about fuel mileage.


There will be a road test of the new R1200R posted here: http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/2007_BMW_R_1200_R_launch.htm over the weekend (promises, promises) - look for it Monday.

http://www.onlineconversion.com/

very handy tool

[arkline]

It's not really the mileage figure, it is how far you can go before the light comes on and reminds you you're still stuck in the physical world. My 1150R's light comes on at 140-150 and then I figure 35-40 more and it's time to put more gas in...

Sometimes stopping can be a blessing. Sometimes stopping is just a pain...

Oh, and remember we're dealing with the OEM figures which are sometimes not born out in real world weigh-ins...

[ofrogg]

And the fantastic...

blah blah blah... :rain:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

:ymca:

:icon_rolleyes:

[rivi]

Man those guages look "stuck" on and seem to just hang there - offset as usual...Don't like how the throttle cable is routed...Definitely needs a stylized flyscreen/sportshield, not the one pictured with the touring setup. The angle is all wrong on that one and looks weird...

http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/79998837-L-1.jpg

[Dallara]

Geez, Frog...

I had no idea you took criticism of BMW's weight claims so personally. Given that Collyers and I reached the same conclusion but you confined your emoticons to just my statements...

Perhaps this :ymca: emoticon is more appropriate for you, eh? :037: :037: :037:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[supermotoC]

And the color of the footpegs - why they always gotta be BLACK?


Oh, to not need a front brake again.......

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

Oh, and remember we're dealing with the OEM figures which are sometimes not born out in real world weigh-ins...

No kidding. My Roadster got about 27 mpg. This was almost all city traffic driving, but the actual is nowhere close to BMW range figures.

Allan,
The original M1911 colt has been improved on a lot in terms of materials and tolerances. I agree that the design hasn't changed much, but the quality of function has. If you have ever fired a pre WWII 1911 (Whcih I'm sure you have) you know what I mean. The accuracy of this weapon has been substantially improved. The older models had trouble hitting the same spot twice. Kind of a Tommy gun for one armed men. Reliability has always been there. :)

*******************

The bottom line on the R1200R weight compared to the R1150R is the dry Vs dry or the wet Vs wet weights. Comparing the wet weight of the 12 to the dry weight of the 1150 is not fair.

I wonder if the missing 25lbs has anything to do with ABS/TC Vs non-ABS.

I think the new bike is really cool. I like the way the snorkle pokes out for people to see (and hear). I like the narrow stance and rider position. I'll bet this will be one sweet handling machine. I predict that it will be a huge success with the motomedia. Our trusted R1150R got fairly good reviews even with its power deficiencies and slight heft. The R1200R has clearly overcome these issues.

[Rchop]

And the color of the footpegs - why they always gotta be BLACK?


Oh, to not need a front brake again.......

Front brakes are for pussies:icon_wink:

[socalrob]

Allan,

Do you happen to know if "dry weight" includes the Battery? I figure the battery weight would about equal the missing weight you are looking for. I do doubt the bike as more than 3 gallons of non gasoline fluids.

Dean,

This new Integral ABS, I take it to be non servo ABS, but is it fully integral (no rear only brake) or partial. I'd rather not think that BMW is going back to the full integral on a sporty type bike.




Other than the tank range the bike is looking pretty sweet.

Too bad there is no high end sport suspension option. From casual reading I'm not convinced the ESA is worth the complexity/cost, & the R1200S suspension option is supposed to be so nice.

Regarding the traction control option. On a car traction control works pretty well, but also can be pretty herky jerky as throttle is cut and/or brakes are applied to drive wheels. So much so that were I to break the rear wheel loose on a street bike, say going over a damp painted arrow or lane marking, I'm think I'd rather have my own throttle control than have a huge on/off throttle chop that I'd be afraid would cause even more problems. On my wife's old 1999 mercedes E320, the "anti skid control" will keep the car from spinning out on a wet road, I've tried hard corners on wet roads with it on & off just for experiment sake, & it does do what it says it does. The same throttle input that would 360 the car without the traction control will result in a perfect corner with no slip. But it is pretty jerky. I just am not sure how this tech that does work in cars will work on a bike. I picture getting some wheel slip in a corner & having the bike chop the throttle. Not sure thats good. At least in the E320 you can shut it off. I wonder if BMW will provide an on/off switch? IF they do, maybe I would turn it on on wet roads & it would be a good option. I'd be willing to wager Allan will have an opinion on this.

The tire preasure sensor option would be worth it IMHO. I'm a firm believer that the majority of catostrophic tire failures are due to inflation problems. I'd pay for the sensor option. A BMW option that to me is a no brainer.

Are those 2 H4 headlight bulbs? Would be pretty trick to put in one or two HID kits. My HID headlight in my R1150R was maybe the best thing I've done to the bike. All bikes should come standard with HID.

[Tipstall]

Front brakes are for pussies:icon_wink:

:043: :043: :043:

[Tipstall]

One thing about the traction control I have not seen is fast starts. My old BMW 530 had the best traction control I have ever seen. You only knew it was working because a little light on the dash was flashing. Many a mustang got left at the light while I was gone. I have an off chamber turn on the way to work that goes to one lane. All the normal rush hour drivers knew to go for it around this corner as you would gain 4-5 slots, (I know it's dumb, what can I say). In the rain I could go around that corner like a bat out of hell, with the sport tires that don't love rain. I would love to have the new 5 series M car, I think it has something like 5 launch modes. I saw a test drive from Europe where they beat the hell out of the car, unreal.

OK back to my point. With the added horsepower you might get a better launch in a fast start, wet start or start on loose gravel.

By the way I really like the bike and if I get one it will not have traction control.

Ken

[Deans BMW]

Dean,

This new Integral ABS, I take it to be non servo ABS, but is it fully integral (no rear only brake) or partial. I'd rather not think that BMW is going back to the full integral on a sporty type bike.



Don't know, I do agree with you however.

From the pics I have seen, there is a button to turn it off.

[supermotoC]

This new Integral ABS, I take it to be non servo ABS, but is it fully integral (no rear only brake) or partial. I'd rather not think that BMW is going back to the full integral on a sporty type bike.

It is "partially integrated", as in footpedal is rear brake only, lever is both.
Just like the R1150R.

english version of BMW specs:

Optional extras.
• BMW Motorrad Integral ABS (partly integral)
• BMW Motorrad ASC (with ABS only)
• ESA Electronic Suspension Adjustment
• TPC tyre pressure control* (in preparation)
.............

[Optimus Prime]

It is "partially integrated", as in footpedal is rear brake only, lever is both.
Just like the R1150R.
I still haven't seen confirmation that it is without servo's. I don't want no stinking servo's.

[supermotoC]

also from BMW official specs (transalted to Engrish)

High-performance brake system and new generation of Integral ABS.
Featuring two floating brake discs measuring 320 millimeters or 12.6´´ in diameter as well as two four-piston fixed callipers on the front wheel,
the BMW R 1200 R is perfectly suited for powerful deceleration whenever required. Pressure is built up via slender, high-quality flexible-steel brake lines also featured on the two-piston floating calliper acting on the rear wheel brake discs measuring 265 millimeters or 10.4´´ in diameter.

(bold type added)

What that bold section means is that there are no servos to build up/keep up pressure - this is BMW's way of saying "no servos, you no likee".
If this generation had servos, I think Allan would've gone Native on us and traded his FJR for an FJR-AE, just to spite BMW.
[Although, the new issue of Cycle World raves about the electronic clutch in the FJR-AE.]
I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

[geechie]

You guys can quibble all you want. I'm havin' one of these babies!

O.K. I've got a quibble too. It won't be available in red.

George

Oh, sorry. Thank you Dean for posting the info. You make me very happy. Of course I'm not getting much work done today.

G

[supermotoC]

http://www.krylon.com/images/products/large/h2o.jpg

Two cans ought to do it.

[IT- FasterPecker]

more images here:
http://www.motonline.com/article.do?id=1152114931889685

[supermotoC]

You have to register for that site.......

[DJ Down Under]

O.K. I've got a quibble too. It won't be available in red.


Yeah...Black...Grey...and Grey.....that's it...glad they didn't do another Nemo paint job like the S.

DJ

[Deans BMW]

Just to echo what Collyer said, no servos, the same brakes as in the R1200S which are fantastic, BTW.

[Tipstall]

You guys can quibble all you want. I'm havin' one of these babies!

O.K. I've got a quibble too. It won't be available in red.

George

Oh, sorry. Thank you Dean for posting the info. You make me very happy. Of course I'm not getting much work done today.

G

What's with 2 grays??? The black in the pictures looks awesome. The black R's I have seen in person never look as good, (I'm not trying to start a war).

Ken

[Optimus Prime]

Just to echo what Collyer said, no servos, the same brakes as in the R1200S which are fantastic, BTW.

:eusa_clap:

(although I'd still like to know wher the extra 26 "wet" lbs come from)

[Dallara]

Like I've always said...

BMW's servos were an answer to a question nobody ever asked. :037:

(though apparently some people love them soooooooooo much, and are quite sensitive about both them and the weight claims of BMW... :ymca::icon_rolleyes: :ymca: )

Looks like now even BMW realizes that.

I'm with Collyer and Optimus here, though. What the hell accounts for another 25-26 lbs. of "wet" weight. Even a battery doesn't weigh 25 lbs., so that can't be all of it...

Anybody have any idea why BMW REDUCED the alternator output from 700 watts to 600 watts?

Weird.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

ps - How're the brakes on the MZ, Jason?

[Optimus Prime]

You have to register for that site.......
http://www.motonline.com/img_repository/P0024705.gif
http://www.motonline.com/img_repository/okP0024662.gif
http://www.motonline.com/img_repository/P0024665.gif
http://www.motonline.com/img_repository/P0024706.gif

[Capt. Blackadder]

Anybody have any idea why BMW REDUCED the alternator output from 700 watts to 600 watts?
Less drag on the engine? :102:

[Capt. Blackadder]

Here's what R1200R riders will be looking at:

http://members.cox.net/baldur/media/R1200R_dash.jpg

I see at least three "instant necessities": The gas gauge, the gear indicator, and the oil temp display! :icon_mrgreen:

[Dallara]

And I love the 1965/66-style Honda 305 Superhawk gauges! :eusa_clap: :037: :eusa_clap:

http://www.honda305.com/image/forsale/05.09.05_CB77-2.jpg



Of course, at least they don't sweep in opposite directions like the pre-'65 Superhawk's did...

http://www.honda305.com/image/forsale/2005/05.18.05_CB77-7.jpg



Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[socalrob]

Allan,

I was figuring 4 quarts of oil & other fluids at about 7 lbs & the battery at 18 lbs, which off the top of my head seems about right for a battery.

YOMV.:)

Pretty cool that the ABS can be shut off. I like the partly integrated as I am spoiled by having the brakes that way on my current RR. I have to say the new bike is looking pretty sweet.

I'm not sure I'd ever need the alternator over 600 watts. I have a feeling that the lost 100 watts is due to no servos being possible on this bike. I think the servos really sucked up the juice. I'd like to think that without servos the ABS system would be much more robust regarding faults.

[Dallara]

Interesting , Rob...

According to my sources gasoline can weigh anywhere from 5.8 lbs. per gallon to 6.75 lbs. per gallon, so Collyer's figure of 6.25 seems like a good number to work with...

Oil weighs approx. 6.8 lbs. per gallon, or 1.7 lbs, per quart...

And according to Odyssey batteries own website, an Odyssey PC-680, which is the direct replacement for an R-1150-R battery (and weighs slightly more than a stock OEM battery, BTW), weighs 14.5 lbs. ready to use...

So, let's add this all up, shall we?

4.75 gallon fuel capacity X 6.25 lbs. per gallon gasoline = 29.6875 lbs.

4 qts. engine oil X 1.7 lbs. per quart = 6.8 lbs.

1 qt. transmission oil X 1.7 lbs. = 1.7 lbs.

1/2 qt. final drive oil X 1.7 lbs. = 0.85 lbs.

Approx. 1/2 qt. hydraulic fluids for brakes and clutch X 1.7 lbs. = 0.85 lbs.

Approx. 1 qt. suspension fluids X 1.7 lbs. = 1.7 lbs.

14.5 lbs. for a battery

So we have the following:

29.6875 lbs. + 6.8 lbs. + 1.7 lbs. + 0.85 lbs. + 0.85 lbs. + 1.7 lbs. + 14.5 lbs. = 56.0875 lbs.

Which just so happens to equal the the difference BMW has between the "wet" and "dry" weights in the spec sheet, so I stand corrected. All the weight is apparently there with none *missing*...

I may be estimating both the amount of the suspension fluid and hydraulic fluids a bit high, but still the numbers do begin to make sense.

Still, the bike turned out heavier than I was hoping it would. But hey, then again, the bloody FJR turned out to be a friggin' lot heavier than I hoped it would. It still *dances* pretty good, though... I'm sure the new R-1200-R will be one hell of a *dancer*!

But it still hasn't quite got got me lured away from my hoped-for Ducati HyperMotard.

As for the alternator... Police RT's and R-1200-C's got 840 watt alternators, though I never understood the need for it on the 1200-C Cruiser... Running my extra driving lights, higher output headlamp bulb, GPS, radar detector, heated grips, etc. can put my R-1150-R into deficit spending below about 2,500 RPM if everything is on at once, even with the LED taillight. However, It has literally never been run with everything on at once, and is actually primary rigged so you don't run that way. Still, it surprises me that they would reduce alternator output with all the newer electrical accessories coming along and the growing popularity of heated riding gear (which really soaks up wattage!).

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[supermotoC]

Still, the bike turned out heavier than I was hoping it would.

As always, dammit. On the bright side, I wonder what the real figures are for the stock R1150R - we know it has about 72RWHP, but does anybody know what it actually weighs? It's not the absolute weight (well, it is in my personal book), but the 1200's improvement over the existing R1150R -weight loss + HP/torque gain = more FUN.
The more we "think out loud" about this bike, the better it seems to be.
Weight is the absolute enemy, and HP can only counter it for acceleration - cornering & braking are still affected by actual weight. I'd rather have less weight than more HP (my Duke II is the most obvious example), so the lightest equipped R1200R will be the most fun.

Also posted elsewhere - here's a VIDEO of the new R1200r - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPGFoniszW8

[socalrob]

Allan,

You gotta admit its pretty silly for the dry weight of a vehicle to be measured without the battery.

One interesting thing is that the old servo ABS added something like fifteen lbs if I remember right, the new system on the R1200S, which we are assuming is also on the R1200R, adds only 3 lbs, so there is another 12 lbs or so weight savings for many of us, probably 33 percent of the weight savings for the R1200R, which is only about 35 lbs if I figured it right.

What are you feelings on ABS that weighs 3.5 lbs (no big penalty there) & has no servos, & can be shut off? Would you buy it?

I understand everyone wants a lighter bike, but I also want a bike substantial enough to run on LA freeways with ratty expansion joints & big trucks. The new RR is sounding pretty good.

[Tipstall]

Allan,
What are you feelings on ABS that weighs 3.5 lbs (no big penalty there) & has no servos, & can be shut off? Would you buy it?

Dude,

Are you nuts or just looking for fun? :003:

I would go for the ABS, what was I thinking saying that.

Ken

[Ed K]

What George said, a couple of pages back...

Quibble here, and quibble there.

The bottom line is that BMW listened, and gave us almost exactly what we have been asking for.

This is a fantastic all around bike!

As for the colors... Silver, Gray, Black... Gray might be best... but need to see it.

When will it be here?

[Dallara]

SocalRob said:



What are you feelings on ABS that weighs 3.5 lbs (no big penalty there) & has no servos, & can be shut off? Would you buy it?


No. I would not buy it.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[supermotoC]

Here's the "classic" look (this is an option from BMW)
{personally, I dislike pinstripes on anything}

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2007models/2007-BMW-R1200Rd.jpg

We don't need no steenking BEAK!
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2007models/2007-BMW-R1200Re.jpg

more BIG pics, & read all the poop from the horses mouth here:

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2007models/2007models-BMW-R1200R.htm

[Deans BMW]

You will find a lot of things more serviceable, ie piece of cake to get to the battery and the heated grips very easy to service if they malfunction lots of little subtle things like that. The bike will feel much more lively and flickable.

[Ed K]

I dunno Collyer... the pinstripes add to the black... altho the gray seem best in the pics.

[supermotoC]

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/BMW_R1200R_set2-035rcc.jpg

[Optimus Prime]

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/BMW_R1200R_set2-035rcc.jpg
That's an interesting screen.

[supermotoC]

I find it interesting that Tor's pulling a wheelie on a BMW!!

My 1150R would do it, but only in first.

Also sort-of worth waiting for....

Direction indicators in white LED technology.
The BMW R 1200 R will soon be available with white direction indicators in LED technology scheduled for introduction as of early 2007 and then fitted either at the factory or by the BMW Motorcycle Dealer. Up to that point in time the machine can be ordered as an option with conventional white direction indicators.


Here's ALL the options (dealer & factory - in ENGRISH)


Optional extras.
• BMW Motorrad Integral ABS (partly integral)
• BMW Motorrad ASC (with ABS only)
• ESA Electronic Suspension Adjustment
• TPC tyre pressure control* (in preparation)
• On-board computer
• Case supports*
• Sports windshield*
• Double seat bench, low (seat height 770 mm/30.3´´)*
• Double seat bench, high (seat height 830 mm/32.7´´)*
• Center stand*
• Anti-theft warning system*
• Heated hand grips*
• White Turn Signals*
• Exhaust system, chrome-plated
Products marked with an * are also available as special equipment from BMW Motorcycle Dealers.

ESA Electronic Suspension Adjustment.
As an option the rider is able to conveniently vary the suspension of his R 1200 R simply by pressing a button on the handlebar, adjusting the set-up of the springs and dampers by an electric motor in the optional ESA spring struts.

This adjustment function is available even while riding, with the system functions being the same as on the R 1200ST and R 1200 RT.

ESA offers a high standard of comfort in control and ensures optimum adjustment of spring elements to the rider’s particular style of riding
and load conditions at any given point in time. The system also takes the higher standard of riding dynamics on the Roadster into account and
makes a significant contribution to superior riding safety.

TPC tyre pressure control.
Optional TPC tyre pressure control makes a significant contribution to the high standard of riding comfort and safety by reliably informing the rider of the current level of tyre pressure. And since the rider is able to conveniently display the data required in the ---- at the touch of a button, there is no need to stop, say, at a filling station to adjust tyre pressure in a laborious process often involving dirty fingers.

The data required for tyre pressure control comes from sensors in the wheels.

TPC also features an active warning function: As soon as the system recognizes a relevant deviation from the pressure required, a yellow information light or, in the event of a greater deviation, a red warning light automatically informs the rider of the current status.

TPC is scheduled for introduction in late 2006 and will then be avail able straight from the factory and may also be retrofitted as special equipment.

On-board computer.
The on-board computer available as an optional extra enhancing the wide range of functions already offered by the instrument cluster featured as standard, is a very practical companion on the road. Merely pressing a button on the handlebar, the rider is able to call up all kinds of information then presented in the display. This includes bar displays presenting the fuel supply and engine oil temperature as well as gauges showing the range still remaining on the fuel in the tank, the rider’s average speed, average fuel consumption, and the ambient temperature. And as another very important feature the on-board computer informs the rider of the risk of black ice once the outside temperature drops to 3 °C (37.5 °F) or below.

Case support.
The new BMW R 1200 R is available straight from the factory with an elegant case support specifically matching the slender rear design of the machine and thus not impairing the overall looks of the motorcycle in any way. An alternative is the special equipment case support featuring an additional luggage rack.

Sports windshield.
It almost goes without saying that the sports-minded rider opting for the new R 1200 R has no reason to forego adequate protection from wind and weather, particularly as the new machine is far more dynamic than its predecessor. This efficient protection is provided by the sports windshield which, despite its small dimensions, efficiently guides wind and weather away from the rider. The scratch-proof surface, in turn, ensures lasting transparency and maintains the good looks of the windshield at all times.

The rider with a greater focus on riding comfort also has the choice of a high-rise windshield available exclusively as special equipment and described in greater detail in the section on SE.

Double seat bench low and high.
To offer both the somewhat shorter and the taller rider an optimum seat ing position, BMW Motorrad is able to provide both a lower (seat height
770 mm/30.3´´) and higher (seat height 830 mm/32.7´´) seat bench. And whatever version the rider chooses, these special seats come as
a no-cost option when ordered straight from the factory.

Direction indicators in white LED technology.
The BMW R 1200 R will soon be available with white direction indicators in LED technology scheduled for introduction as of early 2007 and then fitted either at the factory or by the BMW Motorcycle Dealer. Up to that point in time the machine can be ordered as an option with conventional white direction indicators.

Special equipment.
• System cases
• Inner bags for system cases
• Topcase, small
• Inner cases for topcase, small
• Sports softbag, small/large
• Tankbag
• Case support*
• Case supports, left/right, with luggage rack
• Heated handles*
• Main stand*
• Anti-theft warning system*
• Double seat bench, high or low*
• Windshield, high
• Sports windshield*
• Sports windshield in sundim glass
• Power socket, retrofittable
• TPC tyre pressure control* (in preparation)
• BMW Motorrad Navigator III
• Motorcycle cover
• Optical embellishment components (in preparation):
• Fork bridge cover caps in lathed aluminium
• Telelever cover caps in lathed aluminium
• Hand levers left and right, milled
• Handle bar clamp support, one-piece
• Paralever bar, milled
• Cylinder head covers, chrome-plated
• Custom mirrors, chrome-plated
Products marked with an * are also available from the factory.


{rant on}
You'd think that since ABS, ASC, and freaking tire pressure control can be added, how about self-cancelling turn signals?
Is that so hard?
{rant off}

[Tipstall]

{rant on}
You'd think that since ABS, ASC, and freaking tire pressure control can be added, how about self-cancelling turn signals?
Is that so hard?
{rant off}

I'm with you on that.

BMW did make this interesting as the new R is not just and bike with a new fuel tank shape and new colors.

Ken

[supermotoC]

Wadda ya think..... grey - or gray?
http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/BMW_R1200R_Munich_Garmisch-.jpg

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/BMW_R1200R_Garmisch_024r.jpg

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/BMW_R1200R_003-(6)r.jpg

poseur

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/BMW_R1200R_set2-026r.jpg


more....

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/2007_BMW_R_1200_R_launch.htm

[rivi]

11,200.00 EUR Euro = 14,331.29 USD United States Dollars

From BMW's German site:http://www.bmw-motorrad.de/de/de/index_frameset.html?content=http://www.bmw-motorrad.de/de/de/products/roadster/r1200r/r1200r_main.html

Will this be the starting price? Or, will it be adjusted? That's a huge step up from the $9.9K I paid for the base 1150 if not. A fully optioned out one will put it somewhere between $17 - 18 K? No thanks...

[socalrob]

My prediction is a US price tag of $12,000 to $12,500 without ABS. which puts her at $14,000 or so with ABS. Has to stay no higher than $15,000 with most options IMHO.

Trouble is I don't see why it costs BMW any less to make this bike than the ST.

[R1150R in Africa]

http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3330972

[supermotoC]

SocalRob is probably close - BMW sets different prices for different countries - period.

[R1150R in Africa]

I don't see any dark ferro-metallic colour - the best colour ! That's sad !!

[Optimus Prime]

I don't see any atlantic blue colour - the best colour ! That's sad !!

Fixed that for ya. :028:

[Optimus Prime]

198 Kg dry is approx. 445 lbs., which sounds wonderful, but...

223 Kg DIN unladen weight with a full tank??? Folks, that's right at 502 lbs., and 18 liters of fuel is only 4.75 gallons...

I just thought of something, BMW claims the ST weighs 505 lbs fully fueled... and the ST has a 5.5 gallon tank, IIRC.

What gives?

[Dallara]

Good question, Jason...

Hmmmm. Doesn't make much sense, does it? Next somebody will be saying that FJR-1300's are slower than R-1200-ST's. :104: :):020::) :104:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[GPM]

Good question, Jason...

Hmmmm. Doesn't make much sense, does it? Next somebody will be saying that FJR-1300's are slower than R-1200-ST's. :104: :):020::) :104:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

I don't know about ST's but they are slower than GS's. Assuming the GS gets to pick the road.....:eusa_whistle: :eusa_whistle: :eusa_whistle:

[Sir Limpsalot]

Which probably isn't much, *FROM* £8295 on the road, in the UK. Available mid September.
Add to that £200 for heated grips, £500 for the cases and rails, puts it up to £9000 for the base (no ABS) model. Guys, that's a hell of a whack!
There are shedloads of desireable machines available here for a good deal less.
I hope you lads do better on price. Interestingly though when I was in Germany last week I went to the local BMW dealer and did some price comparrisons between the German (euro's) and UK (pounds) and allowing for exchange rate fluctuations they were the same.....
Roundel Tax indeed.
Si.

[Dallara]

Simon said:




"Roundel Tax indeed."



Amen, Simon... Amen.

I think I can understand what BMW is trying to do - i.e. try to move upmarket and away from Japanese price competition - but I think the strategy will eventually backfire on them. They simply cannot continue to move their price up and up and up while not actually offering a far superior product or exceptional service.

Harley is just now learning that, as the bloom is beginning to come off their lily. In the apst year I have actually seen Harley discounted at well below MSRP, and it has been a long time since that happened.

Another problem for BMW, at least here in the USA, is that they have been losing a lot of dealers who simply could not reach the proper profitability to remain open. My Kawasaki/Yamaha dealer here, who used ot be a BMW dealer but shut that down years and years ago, recently took on Victory (Polaris) motorcycles. This may eventually get him KTM's, but when I asked him why he didn't get the KTM's from the get-go he said there simply was not enough potential sales out there to justify the floor space requirments, parts and model inventory requirements, signage investment, etc. Just to see I asked him had he ever considered taking on BMW again, to which he just laughed... Saying he wouldn't even consider it as they were getting way too expensive in the marketplace and he didn't need a bike line where he could only sell 10 to 12 bikes a year.

Roundel Tax, indeed...

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[supermotoC]

look! 411 on the handlebars!!

http://www.bmw-motorrad-bilder.de/albums/r1200r/IMG_9757.jpg

mmmmm... black

http://www.bmw-motorrad-bilder.de/albums/r1200r/IMG_9760.jpg
http://www.bmw-motorrad-bilder.de/albums/r1200r/IMG_9749.jpg

BMW...by Akrapovic
http://www.bmw-motorrad-bilder.de/albums/r1200r/P1010819.jpg

modern bug death

http://www.bmw-motorrad-bilder.de/albums/r1200r/IMG_9730.jpg


many pics from the BMW press showing.....
http://www.bmw-motorrad-bilder.de/thumbnails.php?album=14

[Acacia]

What? No tassels for the bar ends and studs to attract a few cruiser dudes?

[fotomoto]

[QUOTE=supermotoC]look! 411 on the handlebars!!

http://www.bmw-motorrad-bilder.de/albums/r1200r/IMG_9757.jpg

What does ESA mean? Extended Service Agreement? :037:

[supermotoC]

Electronic Suspension Adjustment - sport - touring - comfort modes - the new K bikes have this as an option. Apparently, many people like it. I would probably leave it sport mode & call it a day.

[geechie]

Apparently, many people like it.

Indeed. Even some in the MotoPress, notoriously unkind to Beemer bikes, have had decent things to say of it. I would agree (again) with Collyer in that on any bike of mine it would probably just stay in "Sport" mode. So I will not include ESA on my options list when I put in my order (no time soon, BTW).

George

[Dallara]

Believe me, Collyer (SupermotoC)...

Doug (fotomoto) knew what it meant. He was just having a little fun. :037:

BTW, did any of you see that literally *ALL* BMW ABS equipped 1200's (2006 K1200R's, K1200S's, R1200GS's, R1200RT's, 2005 K1200R's, R1200ST's, R1200GS's and 2004 R1200Gs's) have been recalled regarding their brake systems?

Here's the info, courtesy of MCN:



"Number potentially involved: 13,200

Component: Brakes, hydraulic and antilock

Summary: On certain motorcycles, the loss of ABS capability may temporarily occur under rapid, repeated, and unusually harsh braking.

Consequence: The temporary loss of ABS braking could increase the risk of a crash.

Remedy: Dealers will add a physical restriction, in the form of a banjo bolt with a flow restrictor to the brake line. On certain models dealers will install new front brake discs of a slightly larger thickness for free. The recall is expected to begin during May 2006. Owners may contact BMW at (800) 831-1117. Customers may also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's vehicle safety hotline at (888) 327-4236 (tty (800) 424-9153) or go to http://www.safercar.gov (http://www.safercar.gov/).

NHTSA Campaign ID No.: 06V164000"



Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[geechie]

Summary: On certain motorcycles, the loss of ABS capability may temporarily occur under rapid, repeated, and unusually harsh braking.

I wonder just how that was discovered.

George

[Promethean]

What's a 411? Curious minds want to know.

[Optimus Prime]

What's a 411? Curious minds want to know.
linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-1-1)
411 = info

[socalrob]

Say what you will about the "roundel tax", but BMW & Mercedes both demand a big premium over Toyota & Honda, which even most BMW & Mercedes owners will concede are more reliable & trouble free. But there is something different in the way they drive. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? When the Japanese makers go head to head with the Germans, in the form of Lexus & Infinity, they charge pretty much the same $$ as the Germans.

So the question then, are BMW motorcycles distinguishable from Japanese motorcycles, and what "premium" price are riders willing to pay? The way I see it, BMW's troubles are that the US is really very different markets, & value & what sells in high income/costs places like LA may be very different than in Cincinnatti. Here in LA my local dealer sells about 200 new BMWs a year. They seem to be doing very well, & a big new dealer opened about 50 miles away. Your opinion may vary.

[BobFV1]

So the question then, are BMW motorcycles distinguishable from Japanese motorcycles,

Yes -

The product line is varied and accomodates most riders, riding styles, and riding environments. The big opposed twin provides a unique power band and riding experience. The suspension system on our bikes is different than those in Jap bikes.

Our BMW's are definitely unique - are they worth the price when many Jap bikes are cheaper? IMO yes. I keep buying them.

[Biff's R]

Summary: On certain motorcycles, the loss of ABS capability may temporarily occur under rapid, repeated, and unusually harsh braking.

I wonder just how that was discovered.

George

I would guess it was discovered at a track day.

[Ed K]

On certain motorcycles, the loss of ABS capability may temporarily occur under rapid, repeated, and unusually harsh braking.

Hmmmm

[supermotoC]

The above mentioned phenomenon occurred in off-pavement instances & on ridiculously rough (multiple RR crossings/no maint.) roads. Nothing's perfect.
Except BEER.

[geechie]

Hell, even beer isn't perfect all the time. Unless of course you narrow the definition a great deal.

But back to BMW motorcycles... Bob, I'm with you. I like the fact that not every schmoe I pass on the road is riding a Beemer. My R-bike affords me something unique and special for which I'm willing to pay a premium. Kinda like that 6-pack of Hoergarten in the downstairs fridge.

George

[Deans BMW]

As long as people pay the prices they pay for HD's and the like, I have not the slightest problem with the prices to get a Beemer.

[arkline]

That ABS fault sounds suspiciously like a recall that they had to do about a year and a half ago. Same wording in the announcement anyway. I'll see if I can find it online. I remember distinctly receiving a letter after Donna had sold her F650CS with ABS with exactly the same scenario...

Edit - Found it. 2005
http://motorcycles.about.com/library/recalls/blmotorecalls001e.htm

[Optimus Prime]

As long as people pay the prices they pay for HD's and the like, I have not the slightest problem with the prices to get a Beemer.
:045:

I spec'd out a $32,000 screamin eagle electra glide the other day...

You can buy a 3-series BMW for that.

[Moose]

Well, guess I'll be about number last to weigh in on the R1200R here. Been out of pocket for a couple weeks between work and rackin' up over 4500 miles around the country. But I kept my rides to daytime only, non of that Midnight Icicle stuff for me DJ. No, I had to go from a blizzard atop the great divide in Colorado to a 115F dash from Yuma, past El Centro (ie. El Sweato) to San Diego. The R1100R ran fast and sure. I prefer to think of it as the R1100RLT for Light Tourer. And apparently so does BMW.
Weight is major issue in the discussions of the R1200R, as it should be. As I get older, I'm not looking for a heavier touring bike. So, all in all I think BMW got this new Rbike about right. I like the almost modular concept, ie, expandability of the bike. All bikes can take add ons, but this one in particular seems well adapted to upgrade and improvement over time as one's budget allows. But I'm with Road Dog on one point. I'm ready to fly over to Germany and wring the neck of the genius that put a 18 liter tank on the bike. While I don't routinely ride 3 hr. stage lengths, more range is necessary here in the Southwest. Not if one is on the slab, but try the back roads over a holiday. Hell, try Interstate 8 on the 4th of July. Yep, a scheduled fuel stop was out of gas. Swell!!!! Made it on fumes to next stop. And this was after changing my intended route in consideration of no gas along rural routes that I much preferred to the slab. Oh yeah, the usable fuel capacity of the R1100R, 18 liters.
But then reality sets in and I have to admit, after holding my breath for over four years in anticipation of the R1200R, it is a quantum leap in all aspects over the R1100R. Maybe not so with the 1150, but I can't wait to ride, evaluate and ruminate with a cheap cigar over the prospect of this bike entering my stable, such as it is. I even like the looks. But that PUNY tank will leave me high and dry with my luck. And then it will off to Germany. :014:

[Dallara]

Ron (Moose) said:



"...evaluate and ruminate with a cheap cigar..."



Cheap cigar??? :104:

Say it ain't so, Ron! Say it ain't so! :icon_wink:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[Dallara]

Jason said:




"I spec'd out a $32,000 screamin eagle electra glide the other day...

You can buy a 3-series BMW for that."



From BMW's website...

2006 K-1200-GT - $18,800.00
Electronic Suspension Adjustment (ESA) - $775.00
Heated Seat - $270.00
Heated Grips - $200.00
Cruise Control - $310.00
On Board Computer - $215.00
High Windshield - $95.00
Anti-Theft Alarm - $225.00

Total - $20,890.00 - and that is without System Case inner bags, a top case, a tank bag, the additional power socket, or the BMW Navigator GPS that are all available as accessories from Bay-M-Vay... And then there is dealer prep, freight, tax, title, and license fees, etc...

May not be a 3-Series, but I got quite a few cars on my lot that tach in at less than that.

And I paid just a touch more than $12,000.00 out-the-door for my 2006 Yamaha FJR-1300-A... And it came with bag liners. :icon_wink:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[Optimus Prime]

Jason said:
From BMW's website...

2006 K-1200-GT - $18,800.00
Electronic Suspension Adjustment (ESA) - $775.00
Heated Seat - $270.00
Heated Grips - $200.00
Cruise Control - $310.00
On Board Computer - $215.00
High Windshield - $95.00
Anti-Theft Alarm - $225.00

Total - $20,890.00 - and that is without System Case inner bags, a top case, a tank bag, the additional power socket, or the BMW Navigator GPS that are all available as accessories from Bay-M-Vay... And then there is dealer prep, freight, tax, title, and license fees, etc...

May not be a 3-Series, but I got quite a few cars on my lot that tach in at less than that.

And I paid just a touch more than $12,000.00 out-the-door for my 2006 Yamaha FJR-1300-A... And it came with bag liners. :icon_wink:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

I will agree, the upper end BMW's aren't very appealing to me. Depending on the price for the F800 line and the R1200R, those may be BMW's only real value moto's as far as I'm concerned. The warranty is worth decent money, IMHO, and the fit/finish/overall competence is still at the very upper end for my money. YMMV

I will say that the Wee-strom is high on my list of motorcycles to look at next year. You can get them OTD for under $6500 pretty easily, I've even seen $5500 on old stock. That's a hell of a deal for what seems to be a very competent motorcycle with solid after market support.

[Promethean]

I was actually considering getting the DL1000 a while back before I encountered BMWs. One of the things I hear about the Strom is that it has a lot of front end dive during braking and installation of a bash plate is probably a good idea if you were to take it offroad. Other than that, I think it's a first class bike.




I will say that the Wee-strom is high on my list of motorcycles to look at next year. You can get them OTD for under $6500 pretty easily, I've even seen $5500 on old stock. That's a hell of a deal for what seems to be a very competent motorcycle with solid after market support.

[Dallara]

And those 650cc V-Twins that Suzuki makes might very well be the very best engine they produce... And yes, that includes GSXR's, IMHO.

Speaking of warranties, I should mention that I have a Yamaha factory YES 5 year warranty on the FJR, and those additional 4 years over and above the standard 1 year warranty are included in that drive-out price above for my FJR. Just FYI, since you mention warranties...

Oh, and did I mention that maintenance intervals are 26,000 miles apart?

But, back to BMW...

Jason, I have owned and ridden dozens of brands of motorcycles. some do better on fit and finish than others, but IMHO BMW is far from being the best in that area, especially in a couple of areas. Certainly they are nice, but not anywhere near the best... again, IMHO.

That's really the problem in my eyes. I personally see BMW trying to chase a rainbow of electronic gimcrackery that one, I simply would prefer not to follow, and two, is what they are trying to use to justify their ever climbing prices. Once you factor in all the cost of that unnecessary (IMHO) electronic wizardry, plus the high cost to maintain it, diagnose it if there is a problem, and repair it if necessary, the cost-benefit ratio starts looking pretty dismal to me very quickly.

I have to agree with you in some ways... The only Beemers that hold even my slightest interest right now ar the new R-1200-R, the R-1200-G/S, and the R-1200-S. But something tells me we are going to see an MSRP of about $12,500, or more, for a base R-1200-R. It only makes sense. The R-1200-S starts at $14,700, as does the standard R-1200-G/S, so we know it will be less than that, but how much less? In the past it hasn't been all that much, so we could see maybe even a $13,200-13,500 base price...

Can you honestly say that a new, stripped R-1200-R would really be worth it for $13,000 or more? Or even $12,000 or more? Maybe it is to you, but I have a tough time justifying it when I can get something like the FJR, or a Triumph Sprint ST, or Honda VFR-800, etc.

Another thing that leads me to believe that the new R-1200-R is going to actually sell for higher than $12,500? Moto Guzzi's Breva V-1100 sells for $12,499...

And yet another... The new F-800 series bikes are all going to sell for $10,000 or more here in the US, IMHO. Oh, they may have one model that they price at $9,999, but that will be as close as it gets. Why? Well, because the F-650 singles are $7,500 and $8,200, and you know they will price an 800cc twin higher than that, and by a fairly significant margin.

Now you tell me how a new BMW 800cc parallel twin is worth $3,500 more than the Wee-Strom you mentioned???

To me it's not. Simple as that, and that is why BMW is quickly losing me as a customer.

A very respected member of our board here e-mailed me this morning regarding this very issue. I will not divulge his identity - he can do that if he so chooses - but basically he presented a very good argument how BMW has re-focused its target demographic and in doing so taken him completely out of that picture. He loves his BMW, and I honestly think he would love another, but like me he simply cannot justify the price any longer. It has gotten too high... And that's really sad, because BMW had both him and me completely HOOKED at one time. I seriously doubt either one of us would have considered buying another brand for our next bikes past our current BMW's had BMW not decided to start marching upward, ever upward, with their pricing structure. We were dedicated BMW customers, but now, well...

If I am going to spend "Roundel Tax" level dollars then at this point it will be for something Italian (read - Ducati or MV Agusta).

Just my two lire... Of course, YMMV.

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[Optimus Prime]

...
...
Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

Ya, I have a hard time disagreeing with you. I'll have to actually get seat time with the new BMW's and the competition before I can really make a real opinion. One problem I do have around here is that I can only get test rides on Harley's (Buell) and BMW's.

It's hard to hold the Yamaha's and Suzuki's, etc. in high regard if they won't let you ride them before you buy them...

I do have a feeling that BMW's are pricing themselves out of my range. Not because I can't afford it, but because I can't justify it over the others. Especially with the extended warranty like you got on the supertanker...

[Dallara]

Though I can understand people's reservations about buying something without test riding it that has never been an issue for me. Very, very few bikes in my lifetime have I gotten to test ride, either when I bought them or not. Last actual one I was test riding to perhaps buy was a Ghezzi-Brian Furia back in 2003, and I didn't buy it. Not because it wasn't almost exactly what I was looking for, but because I knew I couldn't get bags, windscreens, etc. for it.

I did get to ride two Yamaha FJR-1300's (a 2004, IIRC... It might have been a 2003... It was silver, anyway, and a 2005, for sure), but both of those were owned by individuals and they were only letting me ride their FJR's so I could see how I liked 'em.

The way I research my bikes, for me, and the thought process I go through pretty much makes a test ride superfluous. I simply already *know* pretty much how something is going to handle and react before I get there... and maybe that comes from owning so many bikes over the years, riding and racing so many others, and being a dealer for so long. That said, I am glad I got to rent a BMW R-1150-RT in California last summer, as that ride firmly and completely convinced me that an R-1150-RT was one motorcycle I never wanted to own...

One thing you said:



"I do have a feeling that BMW's are pricing themselves out of my range. Not because I can't afford it, but because I can't justify it over the others. Especially with the extended warranty like you got on the supertanker..."


Rings especially true with me, and actually puts it all in a nice, neat nutshell. I can afford any motorcycle out there I could possibly want, and actually afford multiples (and I am not trying to brag or be pretentious there - just stating fact) of bikes. Makes me damn fortunate, I know, but even though I could afford an entire garage full of BMW's if I so chose I simply could not allow myself to do it. To me they simply are no longer worth the prices being charged for them...

Or maybe a better way to put it is simply that I don't get enough *benefit* from the name or that little spinning propeller roundel to pay as much for it as the company is charging for the *image*, or *panache*, or *identity*, or whatever it's called these days. Beemer's engineering is certainly not so vastly superior (if at all superior in any way...) to justify prices 1/3 to 1/2 again over its direct competition, and BMW's *quirks*, like CAN-BUS/accessory issues, ABS whine and brake feel, bizarro-world switch assemblies (and yes, Virginia, even the lack of self-cancelling turn-signals!), batteries mounted in stupid, inaccessible places, etc., etc., etc. certainly shouldn't cost extra... At least not in my mind.

Don't get me wrong. BMW's are nice, well designed (for the most part), well finished, well built, often attractive, and certainly desirable motorcycles - but not half-again more desirable, IMHO.

I know that's not a popular viewpoint here given this board's constituency, but I simply can't see it any other way.

And it should tell us all something when our board's most devout, dedicated, and fervent of the BMW faithful buys a Kawasaki KLR-650 as his dual-purpose mount instead of a BMW F-650-G/S or F-650-G/S Dakar... :icon_wink: :eusa_whistle: :icon_wink:

BTW, I almost bought a KLR yesterday!!! :037:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[Deans BMW]

And I paid just a touch more than $12,000.00 out-the-door for my 2006 Yamaha FJR-1300-A... And it came with bag liners.


Not every one wants an Impala...................:058: :028:

[ofrogg]

Not every one wants an Impala...................:058: :028:

Zing!

[Dallara]

Dean said:




"Not every one wants an Impala...................:058: :028:"



True enough, Dean... True enough.

But then again, not everybody wants to pay $12,000 for the motorcycle...

and then another $6,000 for the emblems??? :031:

But your statement also begs the question, Dean - Why did you buy an Impa... I mean a Kawasaki KLR-650 instead of a BMW F-650-G/S??? :eusa_whistle:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)



ps - if Chevy Impala's were anything like this FJR I'd be driving one right now! BTW, how's that Subaru Forester running these days, Dean? :054:

[Deans BMW]

But your statement also begs the question, Dean - Why did you buy an Impa... I mean a Kawasaki KLR-650 instead of a BMW F-650-G/S???


One hell of a good question, in fact that is exactly what Mz Pam asked, the real reason is that I have never had a dual sport and the ABQ. BMW dealer made an impossible to pass up deal and I need all the money I can gather for the MC B&B............

And a new R1200S....................................

[Dallara]

Dean said:




"One hell of a good question... and the ABQ. BMW dealer made an impossible to pass up deal and I need all the money..."



Ah, ha... We all have our reasons, don't we??? :rolleyes: :eusa_whistle: :045: :eusa_whistle: :rolleyes:


:eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance::eusa_dance:


Still, it's gotta' hurt riding that off-road Impala... :082: :082: :082: :082: :082:

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)




ps. - I can buy a brand new, 2006 Kawasaki KLR-650 for $4,300 plus T.T. & L.... Is that a good deal???

[socalrob]

I don't see the BMW F series & the KLR being tuned to the same mission statement. The BMW is a road oriented entry bike that can be taken off road. The KLR is an offroad bike that can be taken on pavement. As Dean already owns a road bike, I see why he would have gone for the offroad bias of the KLR.

Regarding BMW prices, they will either succede or fail in the market place. I would assume they have pretty intelligent marketers / accounting types setting their prices. They may prefer to remain a high margin low volume operation. Not sure why I see all the griping here over the price of this or that. Its either worth it to a particular person or not. BMW does seem pretty successful with their car business, and their cars are priced very high. A Hundai is a much better value, but there seems to be a never ending line of people to buy BMW cars. I imagine the car side of the company influences the bike side.

[Bones]

It is not about the money, itself. We all know that. There are too many examples of this, as touched upon by Socal, Optimus, and others. It is about the whole package. And here is what I mean: the Vstrom for example. Fantastic engine. That twin IS a great engine and nobody makes one just like it. BUT, as much as I have enjoyed riding a few Suzukis on the track (GSXR600 and SV650) and found them to be very, very competent, I simple cannot swallow ANY of Suzuki's esthetics or fit and finish. They may ACT like high end bikes, but they look and feel like crapola. Look at the switch gear, levers, peg bolts, exhaust hangers, etc., etc. on their bikes. Crapola. So even with a great "deal" on price, I just can't make myself feel like I am taken in by their bikes.

Contrast: I have ridden a bunch of Harley's these past several months, some of them chromed up and tricked out. Not one of them had much in the way of "performance," but every single one I have been on has had outstanding fit and finish. Soul and visceral stimulation were there. You couldn't take any of them where a Vstrom can go, but at least there wasn't a feeling of cheesy factor when riding them, at least for me.

The Strom cost under 7 K and the cheapest HOG I rode cost well more than twice that. There are plenty of Harleys getting sold , as you all know.

So clearly, it is not about the $ alone.

The problems I see with the newest BMW's have to do with too many electronic things I don't need (or want) and intentionally making the bike impossible to service yourself. That is infuriating, because once in a while you may be on a trip and have to fix something before you can get to a dealer. Plus, all that electronic wizardry doesn't always work.

That said, there are few things BMW has done that no others have. One of them is evolve a flat twin into what is for me the most desirable engine platform out there. They now are getting over 110 hp out of a flat twin while having it meet EPA requirements! The flavor of power delivery of the R engine is just so satisfying.

In my opinion, even if we say we are ignoring the emblems on the bike, we are not. I am not saying it is worth extra money for the roundel. I am just saying that each Marque has its own package and baggage, and we all buy into that when we select a bike, like it or not. A lot of what we get out of riding is mental and whether or not you are satisfied is a result of the composite of performance, feel, look, sound, smell. Final proof: listen to how many guys (including many on our board) rave about Ducatis. Most of their line are overpriced and under perform , are uncomfortable, have reliability problems, etc. But they sure make a pretty shade of red, I guess.

And Alan.....my GS has a battery that is under the seat, has self cancelling switches, no ABS and thus no servo whine.

BMW needs to support their dealers in the US a LOT more than they do or the dealers will simply dry up completely. I live in a pretty large state near plenty of decent size cities. The closest dealer is about 100 miles away and they are getting squeezed big time.

Jeff

[Dallara]

Two quick things, Rob...

Go back and read this thread again. All I have been saying is that I - me, myself, and I - don't think BMW's are worth it any longer. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy one... or Dean... or Jason... or Frogg... or anybody else. I have simply stated that I no longer find BMW's cost/benefit ratio acceptable to me.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have also given my opinion - nothing more, nothing less - that it will eventually hurt them in the marketplace.

And if you read back at the front of the thread you will see that I even make it clear that the new R-1200-R is the only BMW I have recently seen that might entice me back into the Bavarian fold... but only if they don't price it over the moon, which I fear they will.

Second point...

Calling a KLR-650 Kawasaki primarily a "an offroad bike that can be taken on pavement..." honestly makes me giggle a bit. Seriously. Why? Because it was designed from the get-go, by Kawasaki, back when it was first released as a 600cc bike, to be a street bike first and foremost and a dirt back a distant second place. That's why it was the very first of the water-cooled four-stroke Jap singles - to survive on pavement, not in the dirt.

The engine weighed far too much for a true dirt bike, and they designed it with a counterbalancer so it would be smooth enough for day-to-day operation on the street. There was never a *dirt-only* version of the KLR-650, unlike Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha's four-stroke singles of the time (back when Kawasaki introduced the KLR waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the early 1980's!!!).

If anything, Kawasaki invented the "mission statement" that BMW shoots for with their F-650-G/S's, and the KLR was what BMW was shooting at when they brought out the G/S F-650's (and please don't get the street-only CS version, with belt drive, confused with the G/S series).

Having ridden them a bunch I can tell you that as a dirt bike the Kawasaki is marginal at best. It just simply happens to be one of the better street-biased dual-purpose bikes out there. The forks flex and flop like spaghetti, the suspension is too soft, the damn things are way too heavy, they are bulky around your knees because of that huge tank, they don't produce enough power and they rev too slow for serious off-road work, the clutch is marginal for real dirt riding, and they turn like school buses... They may be the world's best do-anything bike, but that doesn't make 'em a good dirt bike.

Take a look at the specs for the F-650-G/S Dakar compared to the KLR...

Displacement: G/S - 651.55cc vs. KLR - 651.55cc
Bore & Stroke: G/S - 100mm x 83mm vs. KLR - 100mm x 83mm
Compression Ratio: G/S - 11.5 to 1 vs. KLR - 9.5 to 1

Both have four valves per cylinder and are water-cooled, not to mention both are DOHC with their cams driven by chains... And both have counterbalancers. Both have nearly identical power outputs, with the edge going to the BMW.

Both have 5 speed gearboxes and chain final drive, and the internal gearbox ratios are nearly identical.

Both have 21" front wheels and 17" rear wheels carrying identical sized rubber.

BMW's wheelbase is 58.6" and the Kawasaki's 58.9".

Seat height is 34.3" for the BMW and 35" for the KLR.

Kawasaki has 38mm diameter forks while the BMW has 41mm ones (and I don't have to tell you which of those is better suited to the dirt...).

Kawasaki has 9.1" of suspension travel at both ends, while the BMW has 8.3".

BMW has a claimed dry weight of 387 lbs. with Kawasaki claiming 337... But I have to honestly say I know from weighing one that a KLR could only see 337 lbs. dry if you took both wheels and the front fork off... :104: The one we weighed in our shop, with oil everywhere it was supposed to go and a battery, but literally no gas... weighed 370 lbs.

Both have small fairings, and the Kawasaki has a bigger (read more street oriented) fuel tank at 6.1 gallons, with the BMW carrying a more svelte, dirt bike-like 4.0 gallons.

And BMW's 650 singles have won the Paris to Dakar race, whereas the KLR ain't never won nothing, nowhere, no how.

Kawasaki designed the KLR from the beginning to be a street bike that could dabble off-road reliably as a fun playbike, just like BMW's F-650-G/S's were designed.

I just didn't want there to be any confusion about that...

Cheers!

Allan (Dallara - NAABSCD)

[geechie]

Well, at the risk of making the same point.... over and over and over again: the new R1200R will be my next bike. It's gonna cost more than I'd prefer to pay. But I'm gonna pay it anyway. And if they price it above what I'm willing to pay, well then I'll just wait another year and pick up a gently used one. Hell, given an extra year of saving my change, I should even be able to swing the two cans of Krylon.

George

[arkline]

Krylon makes "Piedmont Red"? I'd have never known...