The Black Hills Of Summer

[BobFV1]

Okay -

Five Charlie is in getting it's 12K, and I am getting ready for my next adventure. It will be the BHOS ride - the Black Hills of Summer. Never been to the Black Hills. So, On Monday I will ride North out of Phoenix - no set agenda but I am thinking of leaving early, dual-sporting over Keebler Pass North of Crested Butte in Colorado, and camping the first night in Steamboat Springs. Day 2 - up and at em early, North to South Dakota and through Custer Park to Mount Rushmore. Camp for the night - watch 4 of July fireworks over the rock Presidents. July 5 - slab to Wisconsin and camp along the Mississippi River, July 6 - Wisconsin to my business partner's 400 acre farm in rural Western West Virginia. July 7 - on the farm. July 8 - through W VA and VA via back roads to DC.

Any ideas, thoughts, sentiments are welcome as always. If any PHX area riders want to tag along the first day or two, you are welcome. I don't know anything about the Rushmore area, but I guess I will find out. Of course, there will be lots of pics and reports from the open road.....

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

Bob;
It sounds like fun. I hopeI can ride with you on one of these trips someday. Of course dual sport on the MT means canyon strafing and blvd drag racing. It takes a few months for my bike to get as dirty as yours does in one afternoon.

Anyway, keep an extra eye out during the holiday period. The highways can get a little more dangerous during this time. Have fun and take lots of pictures.

Regards,
Jeff

[supermotoC]

Wounded Knee. Do not miss this tiny but hugely important place. If it does not bother you to stand there, you aren't alive.

[AZBMWRIDER]

[/U]
Okay -

Five Charlie is in getting it's 12K, and I am getting ready for my next adventure. It will be the BHOS ride - the Black Hills of Summer. Never been to the Black Hills. So, On Monday I will ride North out of Phoenix - no set agenda but I am thinking of leaving early, dual-sporting over Keebler Pass North of Crested Butte in Colorado, and camping the first night in Steamboat Springs. Day 2 - up and at em early, North to South Dakota and through Custer Park to Mount Rushmore. Camp for the night - watch 4 of July fireworks over the rock Presidents. July 5 - slab to Wisconsin and camp along the Mississippi River, July 6 - Wisconsin to my business partner's 400 acre farm in rural Western West Virginia. July 7 - on the farm. July 8 - through W VA and VA via back roads to DC.

Any ideas, thoughts, sentiments are welcome as always. If any PHX area riders want to tag along the first day or two, you are welcome. I don't know anything about the Rushmore area, but I guess I will find out. Of course, there will be lots of pics and reports from the open road.....


The Black Hills of South Dakota…Brings back many great riding memories. When I was based in Rapid City, SD I would ride my Kawasaki LTD550 up to Mt. Rushmore for a cup of coffee and a "Bagel" . After a light breakfast I would ride down to the airport (KRAP) for the afternoon shift.

I recommend that you visit Mt. Rushmore in the evening just before sunset. The park puts on a wonderful presentation as the sun goes down. http://www.nps.gov/moru/

I also recommend ridding through Custer State Park, Just be careful of the wildlife.
(Buffalo, Burrows, and wild horses Rome the Park) http://www.sdgfp.info/Parks/Regions/Custer/custersp.htm

From Custer State Park ride Hwy 385 past Pactola Lake (My favorite lake for barefoot watersking) to Deadwood, SD. Do alittle gambling, get a bite to eat. Once you leave Deadwood, ride west past Lead, SD. STAY on Hwy 14A through Spearfish Canyon. (Awsome Ride) If your looking for a place to stay in the Black Hills, Spearfish Canyon is the place! It’s absolutly butiful. http://www.spfcanyon.com/

Sturgis, SD Not worth it in my opinion.

Other things to do:
http://www.blackhillsmaze.com/ My wife had a greet time here...
http://www.bearcountryusa.com/ Just remember, Keep windows shut and don't feed the bears. (No motorcycles)
They will provide a vehicle for you.
http://www.reptile-gardens.com/ For $.25 you can watch a chicken play-tic-tac-toe, baseball and a piano.

***Damm chicken beat me every time in Tic-Tac-Toe*** (You have to see it to believe it)

I also recommend using your PIAA Lights, day and night while ridding through the Black Hills.

Have a great time…I sure wish I was going!:023:

[GPM]

[/U]
[B]The Black Hills of South Dakota…Brings back many great riding memories. When I was based in Rapid City, SD I would ride my Kawasaki LTD550 up to Mt. Rushmore for a cup of coffee and a beagle.

Coffee and a what?!?!?!?

[BobFV1]

Mike - Thanks very much for your great insight on the area! I will definitely print your post out and put it on my tank bag for reference!

I prefer a sassy little French Poodle to a Beagle any day - but that's just me :028:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri4H1RUZHQU&search=poodle

[AZBMWRIDER]

Coffee and a what?!?!?!?





That's funny!:eusa_clap:

Bagel Not Beagle...:104:

[BobFV1]

Trip is delayed- had to stay back and manage some work issues today - conference call to Asia tonight. Hope to shove off early tomorrow and still make it all the way North to the Black Hills, but I may have to turn right at I-70, or US-50, and run for West Virginia.

Has anyone ever taken US-50 all the way across? I note that it passes through Gunnison, Colorado, and was thinking of taking it all the way to West Virginia and then on to DC in order to avoid the slab - don't really know what to expect, though - maybe a lot of stoplights? Anyway, I'll try to stick with plan A, just delayed by one day....

[BobFV1]

Departed Tempe Arizona on Five Charlie at 0600 this morning. Delia was sleeping so peacefully I didn't even want to wake her to say goodbye.

As I rode out of the Phoenix area in my Venting Machine jacket and pants, the electronic signs all along I-17 read 90 degrees - at 0600! An hour later, North on I-17, I was up on the Northern Arizona plateau at 4000 feet of elevation and it started to cool down nicely.

Stopped in Flagstaff, at the crossroads of Interstate 17 and Interstate 40. An old Route 66 whistle stop, I have always liked "Flag". It's cool in Flag when it's hot down in the Phoenix area, and in the winter there is snow and most years there is skiing in the nearby mountains. Flag is also the gateway to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon.

I rode through the campus of Northern Arizona University in Flag:



NAU, home of the "Lumberjacks", is a beautiful little campus, the smallest of three fine public Universities in Arizona. If your kids are coming up on college and are looking for a small college experience which won't break the bank, NAU is worth a look.

The East side of NAU is bordered by "Beaver Street". A few blocks North on Beaver street are a couple of chic-chic little European-style bakery places:



And, of course, my favorite watering hole in Flag, the "Beaver Street Brewery:



http://www.beaverstreetbrewery.com/

Riding North out of Flag towards Tuba City, the wind kicked up - pretty stiff wind pretty early in the day. It blew me pretty bad while I was traveling due North on route 89, but when I turned Northeast it didn't bother me as much. I continued on for a couple of more hours to Kayenta, Arizona, up in Indian country, close to Four Corners, the intersection of Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah. In Kayenta, a fellow on his way from San Diego to Silverton, Colorado, parked his V-Strom next to me. Storm clouds were starting to gather in the West:





It was still only 1100 - I turned North onto US 191 through the Eastern edge of Utah. It was desolate - in parts of this area I felt like I was completely alone - nobody around for miles and miles. Every now and then, there was a curious rock formation or something, like this one, called the "Navajo Twins":





I continued North on 191 in the remote, Eastern strip of Utah. To my right (East) was all Colorado - the San Juan mountains. I wondered if I had made a mistake by not taking the "San Juan Skyway", Route 550, through Durango and Ouray. I decided not to because Delia and I just rode it a few weeks ago.

One of the few little towns in this little part of Utah is Blanding. On the lawn outside City Hall, most of the town's residents were gathered for a July 4 picnic, although it looked like it could be rained out at any minute:



Then I say a booth for a baby contest, so I parked my "baby" next to it and snapped this picture. Do you think I have a chance. My "baby" is a bit ugly:





The wind started gusting as I went North out of Blanding towards Moab. The road skirts Canyonlands National Park and there are many spectacular views - I didn't stop for all of them, but this magnificent natural arch, called "Wilson's Arch", was right next to the highway:



But looking ahead from the arch, more storm clouds were gathering, and the wind was an annoyance - oh my:



Before long, I was in Moab, Utah, checking out Eddie McStiff's place:



The view from McStiff's patio is breathtaking:



Twenty miles North out of Moab I intersected I-70. Headed East, hoping to make it over to Steamboat Springs for the night, but the wind really, really kicked up. There was nothing out there - no place to stop, nothing to break the wind. Gusts were up around 25 -30, when I passed a sign that said "Dust storm area, next 30 miles. Do not stop in the event of a dust storm. Speed limit 75, except in dust storm, speed limit 30." Great - no dust storm, but strong gusts. They were really giving me fits - I was leaning the bike over to the left so much that my left arm hurt from pressing the left grip. A few gusts blew me all over the road. I tried to pass a tanker but couldn't because the wind was coming off it's bullet-shaped tank and causing too much turbulence for me. I just needed to hang on. 60 miles to Grand Junction. Nothing in between! That stretch of road is desolate. Then the lighting started and I wanted shelter but there was none - passed two exits with "no services" signs. Damn, could I make it?

About 20 miles before Grand Junction I was hit with a thundershower - the wind didn't stop, it just blew the rain in sheets across the road. I passed two big rigs in the wind and the blowing rain and lightning - there was absolutely no shelter to change into my rain gear. My XM radio shorted out from the rain.

It was a short shower, and then I was at Grand Junction. Stopped for gas. It was only 1600 local - I had at least 4 more hours of sunlight left, and Steamboat Springs, my goal for the day, was well within reach. I jumped back on the Interstate and was hit with a big gust - that was God telling me to get the heck off the road. I did, and doubled back to Grand Junction on the frontage road, checked in to a broken down little hotel here. There were about 8 Harley's in various stages of checking in as well - they were all being wiped down by their owners. I just put the cover on my bike, got a sandwich and the best deal in town - a 40-oz bottle of Bud Light for 3.00! In a few minutes the fireworks will start in the local park, and the girl told me at check-in I can see them from the hotel.

Tomorrow I am out at first light to avoid the wind. I am determined to get up to Mount Rushmore tomorrow. Checked weather along the route - looks calm. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it will be calm. More from the road tomorrow:

[TorqueMonsterMT-01]

Otsukaresamadesuta Bob. (A reward for your pain)


I hope the rest of your trip has calm weather.

Keep us posted every day if you can. The pictures and strory are great reading.

[1MPH]

Very nice write up and pictures Bob. I'll help and cross my fingers too.
Have a safe journey.

[geechie]

Great stuff, Bob.

You be careful out there. You hear?

George

[BobFV1]

Day 2 - I am in Council Bluffs, Iowa. 850 miles today. Long story - I promise to give it the attention it deserves in these pages - but not tonight - I need to cover about 1000 miles tomorrow.....

Good night, all.

BTW - the bike runs better and better....

[Tassie Devil]

I just love Beagles...
:058:

Couldn't eat a whole one though....:eusa_clap:

Cheers,

JQ

[Bones]

COUNCIL BLUFFS IOWA!!!

Kris and I bought a Honda Accord there a little over 20 years ago! That is a long story and not a very interesting one.

Can't wait to hear about your trip there.

Fantastic story and great pics.

Safe journey, Bob.

Jeff

[BobFV1]

Made it to DC - pretty tied up with family and work but I will report on the rest of the very interesting trip and provide a few pics as soon as I have time to catch my breath. Five Charlie has over 15K miles on the odometer now, the second set of tires are toast, and I had a tipover in the dirt in West Virginia, doing some minor damage. Bike certainly has character.

[1MPH]

Bike certainly has character.

Just the same as it's owner....

[BobFV1]

So I need to pick up my story on the morning of July 5 - early that morning.

I awoke in Grand Junction, Colorado, spooked by the winds and thunderstorms from the night before. I was loaded up and out onto I-70 headed East at 0530 - right around sunrise.

I know many of you have taken this road before. It follows the Colorado River, up the river canyon and up the rocky mountains to the top of the Continental Divide. Up I went in the early morning light. Even so early in the morning, the winds were howling down the canyon at me, but I just put the hammer down and headed straight on in to them. Up through sweeping curves - up, up, up. At one point I saw another bike up ahead which I was actually catching up with rather slowly - indicating to me that the rider must have quite a set of brass on him, since I was riding pretty well. I finally got close and was surprised to see it was a Harley Wide Glide with a helmet-less, bearded dude wearing a flannel shirt. He had an "Igloo" ice chest bungeed to the back of his bike. I can only assume that this was his daily commute to work, and that he knew the nooks and crannies of this road. I gave him a little salute as I finally caught up and rode by - this guy was quite a rider.

Up, up, up. Through Vail, over the Continental Divide - man, was it cold up there. My teethe were chattering. Down the other side and in to the Denver area, North out of Denver, I stopped for my first gas and some breakfast around Thornton, Colorado.

It was about 1100 by the time I pulled out of Thornton, North on the Interstate, I-25, through Fort Collins and towards Cheyenne, Wyoming. The winds were calm, skies were overcast and weather was cool. I kept calculating in my head, an arrival in South Dakota around 1600 or so. No problem, I checked winds and weather on the Internet the night before and all conditions looked fine.

Well, the forecast was wrong. When I hit the Wyoming state line, the winds started howling. They were coming out of the East - I could see the flags standing straight up, the wind pushing them from right to left as I rode North, Damn, this wasn't supposed to happen. Anyway, it couldn't get much worse, because I had also checked weather further North and it was supposed to be calm as well.

Just over the Wyoming State line, before Cheyenne, I stopped in at the State welcome center. I asked the ladies working there if the wind today was typical. They had a good laugh, and said that the 15-20 mph they had outside was not even enough for them to be concerned - they didn't even consider the winds heavy in Wyoming until they were at least 30 mph. With regard to the direction, they did say that winds out of the East were unusual, but didn't know what to make of it.

Damn - what now? I was already well behind after the winds had stopped me in Grand Junction the day before, and I had gambled by heading North rather than just high-tailing it East on I-70 out of Denver. I really wanted to see Mount Rushmore.

I got back up on I-25, headed North and when I hit I-80 in Cheyenne, I had to make the painful decision to abort. The wind was out of the East and it was blowing me all over the place, and by turning East on I-80, I could head straight into the wind and maybe I wouldn't be blown around so much.

So just out of Cheyenne, headed East on 80, it was cold, and there were storm clouds all around. Hard to believe it was July. I started East out of town and passed an open set of gates and flashing lights across the Interstate, which said to stop and return to Cheyenne when the gates are closed and the lights are flashing. Within a few miles I was on the open, flat plains and the wind had shifted around and was about 20mph out of the S and SE - crosswinds again! The winds were blowing semis - I noticed many of them being blown halfway from the right to the left lane (South to North) and I had to pass some on the right. This was not safe, was not going to last long. I actually started the doomsday scenario in my head - stop and get a ride back into Cheyenne and rent a U-Haul truck and truck the bike on up the road. In addition to the rough weather, I was working under a bit of a time constraint - my wife was flying in to West Virginia Thursday night and I wanted to meet her.

Well, I got off at the first rest stop East of Cheyenne on I-80 and I found the most pleasant older woman working there at the info desk. I confided to her that my motorcycle did not do well int he wind, and that the wind had shifted and I was having a heck of a time and didn't know if I could go on or not.

As luck would have it, the lady was another one of my guardian angels, like the guardian angel in the forest service truck that lead me out of a dust storm in the badlands of New Mexico several weeks ago. She told me that she and her husband had a fifth-wheel trailer and went camping in Iowa often. She said that they had worked out a method for being able to travel East even when the winds were high and the Interstate was closed. The old road, she told me, US-30, meandered fairly close to the newer Interstate highway, I-80, but it really stayed right next to the railroad track which went all the way across the great plains. The railroad track, she told me, was slightly elevated and protected US-30, as did the elevated roadbed of the Interstate.

So I followed her directions and rode under the Interstate and picked up US-30 about a mile South. I turned East on US 30 and went along at about 70 mph (it was mostly a 60 zone), slowing every 10 to 20 miles for little towns, each with a small grain elevator for the trains to stop at. Sometimes I could see the Interstate and other times it was far away over a hill and int he little towns I could see signs pointing to it.

The winds were noticeable on US 30, but they weren't bad and I didn't mind the relatively slow going. I was absolutely fine and I was making progress - not looking for a U-Haul truck to carry my bike! Before I knew it, I was at the Nebraska state line on US-30. Here is one of the few pictures from that day:



I was finally headed East - amazing! If I had tried it on the Interstate, who knows what would have happened, but down here on this lonely road next to the railroad bed, I was making decent time and headed in the right direction. There were thunderstorms predicted that day, but they were supposed to be further South, in Colorado and Oklahoma, according to the Weather Channel in my hotel room back in Grand Junction. I looked back over my shoulder when I crossed the Wyoming/Nebraska border, and this is what I saw:



Anything can happen out on those lonely roads in the Summertime - thunderstorms, high winds, tornadoes. I was holding my own and headed East, so I was happy. I would ride and then slow for a little town here and there - always moving in a straight line across the country from West to East. It was nice to be off the Interstate, away from the trucks.

I kept heading East, through Ogallala, Paxton, Sutherland, and Hershey. On, on, through North Platte, Maxwell, Brady, and Gothenburg - Cozad, Lexington, and Elm Creek. It was comforting to have a little town every 10 or 20 miles - I always knew that if the wind got too bad, I could just stop - everything would be at-grade, I wouldn't have to pull off an Interstate ramp and search for a shelter, I would just be in a little town before long.

It was as a result of my excursion on US 30, that I came across Scout's Rest, a ranch which once served as the home and base for Buffalo Bill Cody

http://www.richgros.com/Cody/scouts_rest_ranch.html

It was quiet and peaceful on July 5th out at Scout's Rest - a stark contrast to the July 4th shows and celebrations that Buffalo Bill and entourage would put on, back in the day. I snapped a few pictures before I moved on:









You may notice something about these photos - the sky is blue and the air is still, it has turned back in to a beautiful, calm Summer day. I leave Scout's Rest Ranch and head back up to the Interstate at about 1600, roughly 4 hours after getting off the blustery Interstate back in Wyoming. I point the bike East and I head towards the East Coast with the setting sun over my shoulder. Nothing to slow me down and nothing but blue skies ahead. I rode until the sun went down that day, over 800 miles total. I crossed the river into Iowa and stopped in Council Bluffs, Iowa, just East of Omaha and I checked in to the Super 8. Got myself a cold 40-ounce Anheuser-Busch product and took a break after a long, long day.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Woke before dawn and headed East on I-80, departing Council Bluffs at about 0530. If I could make 930 miles that day, I would make it to Parkersburg, West Virginia, and be able to park my bike at the farm belonging to my friend and business partner, and pick my wife up at the airport that night.

I made great time - busted all morning across Iowa:



It was at about 0630 that morning, just before the picture above was taken, that I almost had my trip come to an abrupt end. Bombing down the Interstate, I was in a wide and open part of the road, with very few cars due to the early hour, and open cattle land on both sides of the road. There was about 30 feet of grass median in the middle of the road.

The last place you would expect to see a deer, but It was in the median, to the left side of my field of vision, that the dew covered-grass seemed to move, and the brown of the large fawns back jumped out in front of me. My braking was all track instinct - I grabbed front brake only and pulled to maximum braking, right at the lock-up threshold. I looked at the first number of my GPS speed indicator and it immediately went from an "8" to a "5". The front end dipped under the heavy braking, Bambi looked up at me and kept on running. I let off the brake, rolled forward, and missed it by about a bike length.

Lots I could say about this. Would ABS have helped? Possibly - actually, probably. But what really helped me? My track experience - maximum braking, just like diving into a turn entrance at the end of a long straight, trying to outbrake and overtake the other guy. What would have happened if I had applied rear brake under such a braking load? Tankslapper? High-side? Probably some kind of a loss of stability, nothing good. Anyway - I just rode on - had a lot of ground to cover.

Ride ride ride, across Iowa. Crossed the I-80 bridge into Illinois and stopped to look back across the river and take this snapshot:



I moved across Illinois. Had a work issue going on so I had to jump on a conference call to Bangkok from rest stop in Illinois. Moving South in Illinois, towards the Indiana border, the wind picked up again, pretty heavy, and it threatened to storm. By this time, I was tired of the wind - I wasn't going to let it bother me and I rode through it, even though it buffeted the bike pretty badly. When I got to the Indiana border in the late afternoon it had calmed down a bit. I looked at the map - I had been running hard on the Interstate all day and was tired of it, so I decided to turn South at Indianapolis and head down to Cincinnati and pick up US-50, which I could take all the way in to West Virginia.

That plan worked okay. Got through Indy and went across Cincinnati in the late afternoon. Found US-50 and proceeded East in the last hours of daylight. I had about 3-4 hours to go before I got to West Virginia, but I couldn't make it - it was getting dark, it was a remote part of the country, and hotels were few and far between. I was afraid that deer and other critters would start coming out, so I stopped in this little town, somewhere in rural Southern Ohio, and spent the night:





I wasn't the only one on a bike seeking refuge there - you can see a Gold Wing, a Harley, and a metric cruiser all stopped here for the night as well.

I got up at first light and headed East again on US-50. I snapped a few shots in the morning light as I went in and out of little, fog-filled valleys:







That last picture was - my last picture on this trip - batteries ran out on the camera. I got in to West Virginia about 1000. Took a wrong turn about 3 or 4 miles from my friend's farm and pulled off into some gravel to make a U-turn. Making the tight turn, in full lock-up, off-camber and on a hill, the predictable result - I was on my left side before I knew it. The GS ADV is a tall bike, it's heavy,a nd it deserves more respect than I gave it that morning. The tally: broken turn signal lens, scratched case guard and scratched Jesse bag. Had to flag a passing car to help me get the bike up, but I rode on and by 1030 had met up with my wife and my partners. We spent a relaxing day at the farm, and then on Saturday July 8 I rode the rest of the way in to DC on US 50 and Route 7 - Leesburg Pike, a famous old Civil War route, now all asphalt and traffic signals. Had to contend with a lot of slow, incompetent H-D riders on Route 50 - mostly I just rode past them. The GS, now with over 15K miles on it, is getting stronger and stronger - it can out pull most of the bikes out there on the road, including any H-D. My second set of tires, Metzeler Tourances, are toast and I will replace them with Michelins this week. I liked the Metzeler's, but they were snaky and unstable in some rather common situations, like tar snakes and painted road surfaces. Went to synthetic oil at 12K and it is doing fine. One of my PIAA 510's is out, but I think it is a bulb filament break from the tip over.

The bike is dirty, but other than that, it's ready for another trip. Not sure when I will have time, but I'll certainly try to make time.

[DJ Down Under]

Great pics...more!...more!...please...............

DJ

[1MPH]

Superb write up and great pictures. Thanks!!! Do you ever stop to eat? :)

[Wild Will]

and thanks for sharing your trek. Quite some fantastic country out there! And your baby WAS the best looking one. Cheers!

[Promethean]

Bob...I missed this writeup somehow. But I've got to ask.....how the hell do you keep on the bike for that extended amount of time? A couple of hours on the RR and my knees are screaming for relief.

Oh...and where did you pull 122mph? Just curious.

[BobFV1]

Bob...I missed this writeup somehow. But I've got to ask.....how the hell do you keep on the bike for that extended amount of time? A couple of hours on the RR and my knees are screaming for relief.

Oh...and where did you pull 122mph? Just curious.

Abhijeet - they don't call it the "Iron Butt Association" for nothing. We are a special breed. And I have a bike where I sit pretty much upright. And a custom-made saddle - all that helps, as does my "mega-gas-tank".

I usually open the bike up once on a long trip - in this case Utah 191 North of Four Corners.

[Sir Limpsalot]

Love the pics.. love the report..I've had a good trip, learnt some stuff and all without leaving the house. Cool. Thanks again.
Si

[Acacia]

Ab,

To continue some of Bob's thoughts - Riding distance is several things (That distinguish the "Breed").
1. Experience. Ride, find out what does not work and correct it. Sometimes it takes several tries/rides. (saddles for example - I tried a Sargent, (Had Corbins in the past) then a Bill Meyer - rode that 15K miles, sent it back for him to fix/adjust it again). Posture/ergonomics - seat, legs arms, screen positions, physical conditioning, movement on the bike, learning what the various forms of discomfort mean to you - the list can go on. What works for some does not for others.
2. Never ride really long distances with untired equipment.
3. Go and ride, ride, ride. Every ride you learn something more.
4. Experiement. Example- I bought a new set of mesh First Gear pants that everyone raves about. Above 70mph it drove me nuts. The lower pant legs flapped so much that I was about to burn them - my calves hurt after 30 minutes of riding. Got home, needle and thread out, one set of elastic tape and velcro 'stirrups' to take up the slack. Out for a ride- 2nd set of 'stirrups' on and the problem is now solved. Not all the equipment you 'buy' is going to work for you - certainly does not for me. I often make what I want, or in this case, modify it.

If your knees are hurting - find out why? As in the Saddle discussion in a previous thread, there is always some discomfort no matter what you ride and how many bells and whistles you have - but that which makes your ride less enjoyable or bearable needs to be corrected to acceptable levels.

[Promethean]

Thanks Bob and Brian. It appears I have some work ahead of me. First amongst all is conditioning. :D