BMW Bummer

[Donson]

OK, put on Your thinking caps. My Friend Chuck has a 02 K1200LT. Simon, You met Him at the Auto Parts store. He has been through the final drive failure thing, which happened right after warranty expired. BMW offered Him zero help. Old news. New issue, which has been going on 2-3 years. When riding at a steady speed, the bike will miss, suddenly, as if the key was turned off, then back on suddenly. It will happen only at a steady throttle setting. It will happen with the cruise control on, or off. He said it is abrupt enough that He worries the final drive will be damaged again. He has taken it to Oklahoma City (twice I think) to BMW Dealership there, only to have the problem return as soon as He rode it. He just got back from Santa Fe BMW , who did a bunch of tests, fuel pressure, electronics etc, they couldnt find anything wrong. No codes are flashing. They did charge Him $180 to change the fuel filter. They had the bike for a week and it still has the same issue. He has spent $1800 trying to fix this issue. At this point He has a nice expensive touring bike that He is scared to leave town on. For the last two years, the bike has only left town on a trailer behind His Suburban. Needless to say, He wants to get rid of the bike. How do you sell a expensive touring bike that wont run right? Two different dealerships cant find the problem. Anybody have any ideas/suggestions?

[DarthRider]

"They never do that."
Or,
"They all do that."
Either way it's the customers fault.

[Bill]

Have him look at the offerings at BMW-British (http://www.gulfcoastmotorcycle.com/default.asp) South Houston... Find a bike he would like (New or Used)- they do trades.... Have him make a difference offer and send them a photpo and details of his bike - they have always taken my offer... I was never greedy! They are BMW- Triumph and URAL dealer..., About 1 mile east of Hobby Airport.

[panthercity]

"They never do that."
Or,
"They all do that."
Either way it's the customers fault.It's not a fault, it's a FEATURE!

[Pacific]

Seems to me this issue has popped up on ADV once or twice. Might be an idea to have him post there are see if anyone can help him.

Jay

[Sir Limpsalot]

Don, I remember Chuck. Nice chap (and a happy atmosphere in his store).

I would suspect a simple electrical connection fault would be the most likely culprit. Of course, finding it will be about as easy as finding the short on your Triumph..

[Donson]

Have him look at the offerings at BMW-British (http://www.gulfcoastmotorcycle.com/default.asp) South Houston... Find a bike he would like (New or Used)- they do trades.... Have him make a difference offer and send them a photpo and details of his bike - they have always taken my offer... I was never greedy! They are BMW- Triumph and URAL dealer..., About 1 mile east of Hobby Airport.

Thanks Bill, I wil pass that info, but I am pretty sure He wont be buying another BMW.

[Donson]

"They never do that."
Or,
"They all do that."
Either way it's the customers fault.

They did tell Him the final drive was His fault. He had pulled a trailer behind the bike.:cry:

[Donson]

Don, I remember Chuck. Nice chap (and a happy atmosphere in his store).

I would suspect a simple electrical connection fault would be the most likely culprit. Of course, finding it will be about as easy as finding the short on your Triumph..

He has pulled all the plastic off and checked every connection He could find, more than once. He also happens to be a very good mechanic.
He has been on ADV rider with the issue. No fixy.

[DarthRider]

Thanks Bill, I wil pass that info, but I am pretty sure He wont be buying another BMW.
Screw the BMW, tell him to trade it on a Triumph!
And to sell that trailer before the damn thing kills him.

[Griffon]

I also remember Chuck, having bought several things from his place of purveyance!

His fail sounds like an issue I had with Hobbes recently. At steady speeds, he would shut off, just as though I turned off the key. In each case, I restarted with no trouble. I called the service manager at the shop and he recommended I bring the lad in for a looksee. As it turned out, my tune was obsolete. Adam reflashed the drive for a more current one (which had the added bonus of being programmed for 89 octane) and the problem cleared. It might be worth looking into for Chuck as well!

[Sir Limpsalot]

He also happens to be a very good mechanic.


Good. He might need to be.

OK, lets play "diagnostics from 5000 miles" it's a favourite of mine! I don't know much about the K1200LT, but assume it's merely(!) a larger version of the old K100 "Flying brick"? That is to say twin coil ignition (with wasted spark) and basic multi point injection?

Right.

To work an engine need four things.
A. To be in good condition.
B. To have fuel.
C. To have spark.
D. To have the fuel and spark arrive at the right time.

From your description of the problem we can rule out both A and D as the damn thing runs good. (Except when it doesn't!)

That leaves us B and C. For diagnostic purposes we can split the "fuel" side of things into "supply" (tank, pump, filter, relay, fuse, wiring, lines) and "delivery" (ECU, injectors, sensors). Again, from your description of the fault we can - I think - rule out fuel supply. The failure of any of these items will mean that the engine runs out of fuel. We all know what that feels like, right? A loss of power as the engine struggles to get by on reduced fuel pressure. Doesn't sound like that.

That leaves us fuel delivery and ignition to look at. Once more, from your description of events, it is plainly something that cuts all four cylinders instantly. This rules out coils (and wiring to them) and injectors as these would cut individual cylinders.

What then controls the spark/fuel to all four cylinders and can be cut instantly? Well, the ECU does, but they are pretty reliable and are often unfairly blamed for all sorts of ills - we might need to consider it later though if the more obvious culprits fail to reveal the problem. "Obvious culprits?" they would be: ignition switch, handlebar kill switch and side stand cut out. (There are, though, one or two others, fuses etc, that we can look at later if need be.) Of the three switches I would start by by-passing the sidestand cut out *for test purposes only* as (duh!) it's a safety cut out designed to stop the careless from riding off with the side stand down! Side stand switches live in a pretty dismal place where rain and road dirt collect and where fairings and plastic prevent easy cleaning. It would be my "first place to start".

Wish him good luck from me, but don't go making any "Herman Bosch, prince of darkness" jokes just yet. Save them for when it's finally fixed! :icon10:

[jamming]

Don, has he ever taken apart the right hand throttle housing? Pay particular attention to area around the kill switch. I've seen some older K bikes (100, 11's) where the contact in the kill switch would separate momentarily. You know it could be in the ignition switch as well.

Oh yea, +1 on getting rid of the trailer, IMHO it's the 2nd most dangerous thing you can do with a motorcycle. Riding after drinking is #1

[Donson]

Si and Rog, good ideas I will pass on. I gave Him the trailer lecture years ago. He wants to sell the bike and trailer and get another bike.

[jamming]

Si and Rog, good ideas I will pass on. I gave Him the trailer lecture years ago. He wants to sell the bike and trailer and get another bike.

Oh yea, tell him to check the main ground as well, take it off, clean it, put it back on.

[Capt. Blackadder]

This problem sounds electrical to me. Could be the ignition switch or its harness, or any of the interruption circuits such as the side stand, kill switch, or clutch. I've also heard of a hairline crack in the Motronic fuse causing something like this.

Apart from that, has Chuck considered the GS-911 diagnostic tool from HexCode (http://www.hexcode.co.za/)? It can do all sorts of things, but one of its most valuable features is real-time data logging. He could hook one up, start data logging, take a ride until this pesky little fault happens, and then return home and look at the logs. Might get lucky!

:thumb:

[Donson]

Thanks, I will pass along the HexCode info. He rode it 200 miles Saturday, without a glitch. He was riding in 30-40 degree weather the whole time, and the bike didnt miss a beat. Apparenly, ambient temp is a factor in the problem.....? Or, is it?

[DarthRider]

Does he have a shop manual?

[Donson]

Does he have a shop manual?
I dont know, Dave, I will see him in a few minutes and ask Him.

[socalrob]

I had a truck with a bad crank shaft position indicator that was temperature sensitive. When it would fail it was just like switching off the engine. When it worked, thing ran perfect. I think the same part is called the Hall Sensor on an R-bike. This is the part that allows the computer to know where in the stroke/cycle the engine is, now that there is no mechanical connection (distributer) like in days of old.

Question - when the bike quits, does the head light go off (as in whole bike is off) or is it only the engine is off? Does it always restart right away?

Having said all that, seems like a side stand switch type part is most likely culprit. If that has been checked and the kill switch has been checked, I might fork out the money to replace the Hall Sensor.

[Sir Limpsalot]

Rob, it's a "K" rather than an "R", but if the sidestand/kill/ignition switch thing doesn't work then I agree the crank sensor area would be a good place to look.

Don, there is actually a dedicated forum for those bikes (who knew?) http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/faq.php?faq=accessories_faq it might pay Chuck to join up and post his problem there. You never know he might even find a buyer for it! :icon10:

[Donson]

Thanks, Rob. The bike doesnt actually die, it is an abrupt and short miss, but it keeps running.
Chuck does have a shop manual. I will send Him that link, Simon. He said He will sell YOU the K-bike, Si!:004:

[DarthRider]

I believe in checking the easy stuff first, and maybe he has.
But I'd also try a new set of quality plugs (not Autolites!), set to spec. Also inspect all the ignition wiring.
I've seen perfect appearing plugs do some amazing things in hi-po 2-strokes and racing 4-strokes. Worth a check...."Pluck the low-hanging fruit."

Rob, remember a couple of years ago when the Hall sensor failed on my 50R? One of the things I was told then by trusted sources is the sensors are a work/not work device...they don't get wonky, they just quit, sometimes for no obvious reason and they can not be repaired or rebuilt. Mine was fouled & ruined by a partial failure of the alternator belt.

[Donson]

I put the Cafe on Chucks computer at the store, and put in His Favorites, as He is even less computer literate than I. (Are You reading this Chuck? har har)
I think He was going to work on it today.