My Wife Wants to Ride with Me

[Tipstall]

OK, this might get a little long but stick with me as I need a little help.

I always wanted a street bike but knew myself well enough that I was not ready for it. Last year, mid summer, I purchased an XL250 to get my feet wet out on the street. I have ridden dirt bikes since I was 10 or 12. The basics of riding were a non issue, how to use the clutch, that the front brake does most of the stopping, ect.

I read and asked questions regarding street tatics. I tried last and again this year to take the basic riding class but it is sold out. I used the XL to gain some confidence and get used to riding with cars all around.

When I starting looking for a real street bike I started with HD. Never saw the bike that made me say wow. Than I sat on a R1150R at the second BMW dealer I went to, the first wanted me to get a F.

I purchased a used '04 and have had a ball on it. I think it is almost a perfect bike for a low time rider. I would be a little concerned about a new rider but to each his own.

Now my wife tells me she wants me to get her a helmet so she can go with me. I love my wife and she is a great girl but this is about other things. My concern is 2 fold.

1.) I can't see her enjoying it. She is not an outdoor person and not a risk taker. She freeks out at the smallest close call in the car. I will not let her go without ATGATT. I guess I can just have an ebay sale afterwards.

2.) I understand the risk, I don't know if I want to truely explain the risk to her and if she will ever let me back on a bike. I simple tipover at a stop sign could end my riding forever. This area is tough. I'm not trying to bury her head in the sand about the risk, it's just hard to explain.

I have a Givi topcase with the backrest so that should help her feel comfortable. I would take it more easy than I do now. I would go even more out of my way to avoid busy 2 lane roads, pretty easy for me to do.

Please don't think this is about me. I like going alone, (I need some time like that), but would enjoy having her go with me.

Any thoughts?

Ken

[supermotoC]

Uhhhhhhh, First of all, how confident are you on the bike?
How many miles have you got under your belt?
Have you taken passengers on this bike?

Answer#1: if you're not confident/experienced enough (with a passenger) to take her along (safely/confidently), be honest with her. And DON'T.

If you feel OK about it, put a leather jacket on her, stick a helmet on her, decent shoes/gloves/pants, and take her out for a 15 minute ride. This will tell you all you need to know. Forget about the gear $$, if she wants to ride w/ you after that, get her the right stuff - she's worth it, no?
If she doesn't feel comfortable after 15 minutes, you are off the hook.
If she likes it, feel lucky. And take her out whenever - life's too short to be afraid of anything. Don't explain the risks to her, she'll feel vulnerable enough on the back w/ only you to hold onto. If she continues to ride w/you, ease her into the realities (dangers) of street riding. If she wants a bike of her own.... GOOD LUCK!!

My wife was gung ho at first, but the realities of helmet hair, being hot, being "vulnerable", and having to wear safety clothes just became unfun.
She loved riding in jeans & T shirts on the rented Harley in California, but that's not real life.

[Moose]

Tipstall, if you're lucky she'll love being on the bike but wants a more comfortable seat. "Well let's see honey, we may have to get another bike for a better seat." We could be talking R1200ST, GS or K1200GT, etc. Hey it worked for my cousin. I ended up with his RBike.

[BobFV1]

Ken -

Thanks for consulting the board with this interesting question. It is one that I deal with frequently in teaching MSF classes. Students who complete the BRC want to know when they can/should consider riding with passengers, and students on the ERC want to enhance their skills for 2up riding.

As I started to read your post, my first impression was to suggest that you and your wife attend the ERC together and take the course 2up - that is a great way to learn more about riding together in a closed and relatively safe environment, but I see that you have not completed the BRC. I think the BRC is very useful and teaches new riders very important skills which are not intuitive and which are impossible to learn from reading books. These are motor skills and they require physical practice and reinforcing feedback.

There are really two questions here - first, are you confident in your ability to handle a relatively heavy motorcycle in all street riding circumstances with the additional encumbrance of a passenger - not just the extra physical weight which will affect balance and increase braking distances, but the psychological burden of having your loved one on the back of the bike. Second, is it really going to be something which she enjoys once she is on the back.

In your circumstances, I think the best advice I could give would be for you and your wife to enroll in the BRC together and to both go through the course. You will learn proper techniques for a variety of motorcycling skills and activities, and she will gain an appreciation for what you are doing up in the "pilot's seat". After the BRC, you could try a few short, 2up rides and see how she likes it. You need not spend a tremendous amount of money on gear for these short rides. Borrow a helmet from another rider or from a rental shop for your wife to use, and you may be able to rent a set of leathers from a local bike shop or track day outfit - if not go for the most abrasion-resistant clothes she has and make sure she has some sturdy, over the ankle boots, then go for a ride together.

Before you put her on back, you may want to try securing a load to your rear seat which might help you understand the vehicle dynamics with a passenger. Some heavy stuff in a duffel bag secured to the back seat, plus some stuff in your Givi top box might help you get a feel for how the additional weight is going to affect you as a rider. Once you have done this, and assessed your confidence level in riding with a passenger, you should be prepared to give the passenger a full briefing on safety - when to mount, when to dismount, how to shift their weight, where to look, how to communicate, where to put their feet, etc, etc, etc. Once that is done, go for a little ride - preferably in a church parking lot next to a hospital, but any area which is not particularly busy is a good starting point.

My gut level is that it would be better for you to get some more training and/or experience before putting your beloved wife on the back of the bike and heading out into traffic. If that is not possible, consider some of the suggestions I made above, and feel free to PM or call me if you want to discuss in more detail

Ride safe. Bob

[Gord]

Ken - like you, I enjoy my "alone" time. Work, my wife, my two daughters, my house, my dog - all keep me pretty tied up and occupied. So when I need my space, the bike provides it. But I'm not a total prick (*grin*) so when my wife expressed an interest in going for a ride, we loaded up (my dealer had given her a free helmet when I bought the bike and she had leather pants and jacket already). It was, quite frankly, a disaster. Nothing bad happened. And it wasn't that she freaked out. Quite frankly, I did. I was just learning to ride and I found the addition of a passenger totally changed the feel of the bike and my confidence level. A quick ride around my street (it is a loop!) and that was it. I haven't carried a passenger since. But this summer, I think I will start practicing for carrying a passenger. Starting in a parking lot on a quiet Sunday morning.

Perhaps that would be the best approach to introduce her to pillion?

[supermotoC]

Exactly what Bob said. My wife took the BRC w/ some friends just starting out, knowing full well she would never ride her own, but it was a fun & educational opportunity. She loved it, and learned a lot, and rides on the back with confidence (about 3x a year). Genius, Bob.

[socalrob]

Well, theres the end of your two wheel bliss.

-sorry- had to throw that in.

Sounds like you & I have somewhat equal experience levels. I rode dirt bikes as a kid & street bikes in college, & have about 16,000 miles on my 2004 RR. From only personal experience, I can say that I am a much more capable rider & would have a much easier time two up now than when I only had 5 or 10K miles on the RR. In fact, looking back on things, its amazing that I'm still here. And with that, I still managed to dump Allan's RR on the Texas Hill Country Ride in a patch of gravel, a potential disaster if the wife were on.

Maybe a short buzz around a gravel free neighborhood on a nice sunny day, then I'd take Bob's advice about the BRC/ERC.

BTW, my wife doesn't ride with me because we have 3 kids & I don't want to risk leaving orphans. Were my wife to become ill/disabled/die I would hang up riding at least until the youngest kid was in her mid 20s.

[Bones]

"Sweet heart, I have given this a lot of thought. Bottom line: I think there are meaningful risks in riding a motorcycle to begin with. As a relatively new street rider, I am very uncomfortable with the idea of having you on the back. Two main reasons. One: Riding with a passenger on a somewhat top heavy bike makes the handling dynamics very different. I don't think I am experienced enough to deal with that right now. And I sure don't want to triple the risk for both of us. Two: the way I concentrate when riding is focused and intense in a way that is difficult to explain. At the moment I don't think I would even know how to redirect and refine that focus and concentration in a way that would make riding anything other than on the verge of total stress the whole time.

"How about we reconsider this when I feel more experienced and safe with the idea?"


Try that and let us know how it pans out.

Just for frame of reference: I have owned, now, more bikes than I can count, done 15 days of high performance schools, track days, tens of thousands of street miles, and I still haven't gotten comfortable with the idea of riding with my wife on the back. And I haven't up to this point.


Jeff

[DJ Down Under]

I have a little tip for you....when you are stopped...and you normally tip the bike ever so slightly to put one foot down...DON'T DO THAT.

The extra weight will make the bike want to fall over..and that could be embarrassing.

Also when stopping on a slightly uneven surface...make sure it's the higher side foot that you touch down...it's amazing how much that extra weight makes.

Good luck...and I say go for it...I do a lot of two up on mine...just take it easy and work on smooth gear changes.

DJ

[Ed K]

Ken,

What a great group of Cafe members giving terrific counsel...

I might just add one more thought -- if your intuition is giving you reason to pause... there prolly is reason to pause. Whatever the reason... concern for your loved one... riding confidence... etc...

FYI... my wife prefers not to ride because of the risks, and I would not forgive myself if something happened to her while we were riding. And my 18 year old daughter is totally against bikes (whew!).

Let us know what you decide!

[BobFV1]

My wife doesn't mind riding on the back. We have been on multi-day trips together on the bike, but she has decided that it is basically a "waste of time" for her back there, as she tends to get bored after several hours on back - she even claims to have fallen asleep in Southern Utah once!

My 18 year old daughter will accept a ride if it is an option between riding or walking, but since when I am on the bike there is a car "free", she does not end up on back very often. She also doesn't like the helmet messing up her hair and pulling off her earings.

I guess each individual can make their own decision about that. I have only ridden on back a small handful of times in my life and I did not enjoy it one bit.

[jamming]

My wife loves riding on the back and we take weekend trips when we can. I have to admit that I my riding style changes though. I'm really ultra aware of the situation. We have 3 kids, 2 of which are under 4 and I like some have said do not want to make them orphans.
I'm so lucky because she encourages me to ride, when I said I wanted to ride to MotoGP this year and Bonneville with Dean, she said go, have fun! Is she great or what!
You choose the risk, gear her up and give her a chance, I really like the idea of the BRC, Terrie, my wife and I have discussed it for her, but its hard for her to do as she is taking classes now.
Have fun no matter the decison.
Roger

[Tipstall]

Guys,

Thanks for all the advice. Many brought up things I forgot to put in the first post and others some things I didn't think about, (like bones on what I would be focusing on while riding).

Last night I let my wife read the thread. She asked some questions, like why I hadn't taken any classes, and in the end we agreed to wait a while and revisit the decision. I think she may have been relieved. She may have been asking to just be a nice wife.

Thanks guys.

Ken

[BobFV1]

Guys,

Thanks for all the advice. Many brought up things I forgot to put in the first post and others some things I didn't think about, (like bones on what I would be focusing on while riding).

Last night I let my wife read the thread. She asked some questions, like why I hadn't taken any classes, and in the end we agreed to wait a while and revisit the decision. I think she may have been relieved. She may have been asking to just be a nice wife.

Thanks guys.

Ken

Ken -

Nice ending to your story. Sounds like you have a very understanding wife. :023:

[fganger]

Ken,

I also agree that you have received great advice from all on your question. I have a slightly different take because I have an advantage that none of the others have; I've ridden behind you.

When we were riding a thought came to me about your riding style. It is one I've seen a number of times, it is based upon your avocation - flying. I even mentioned it to my Bonnie. Ken rides just like every bike-riding pilot I've ever known, fighter pilot's being the exception - sorry guys.

You are careful and deliberate in your actions; the last thing a bike passenger wants is to ride behind someone who takes uncalculated risks (a hoon) and is unsteady. You do neither.

You have the advantage of both size and strength. You reach the ground with both feet firmly planted on the ground and you are able to plant them pretty far out for excellent leverage. Having just sold your old house, and the process of getting your new house in order, makes sure you are fit. Don't I recall you needing to get back to dig drain tiles in the yard?

One question comes to mind, has your wife ever ridden a bike or has she been a passenger on one? The part which makes every new passenger scared are the actions needed to keep a bike up and make it go in the proper direction. If one is used to a four-wheeled vehicle, the leaning actions will be equated to “My God we're crashing.”

You have a great neighborhood in which to practice riding two-up safely. On a side-note, Bonnie decided to get her own machine after I picked her up in Michigan and we rode to Sturgis for the Rally and back home to Alaska. 4,500 miles was not bad for her first trip, don't you think?

Being that you and your two children ride off-road, that would be the perfect place for her to start. The skills one learns in off-road riding help for the road. I have not found the reverse to be true.

So there you go. Good luck on all of this, and the offer of your wife using my daughter's Honda, if you “guys” are in Florida, still holds.

Frank

[Bones]

Frank,
4,500 miles as the first trip.....wow. Fantastic. Kind of makes those one hour rides a bit different after that, huh?

I agree with your comments about pilots as riders. I mean those who are fliers first and come to riding later. I would have no problem riding with and behind them. They typically have a great intuitive sense about things, understand some complexities that are tough for others to integrate and seem less likely to feel compelled to hot shot.

Interesting comments and made me think about those fliers I have ridden with over the past few years.


One more thought on being a good motorcycle passenger. It appears that it is easiest to be one out of the gate only if one is imbued either with a good deal or riding experience or total blissful ingnorance.

Jeff

[fganger]

Jeff (Bones),
“4,500 miles as the first trip.” I'm sure if my Bonnie knew what she was getting herself into she would of purchased a round-trip ticket to get back to Alaska. But it did encourage her to buy her own bike. Bonnie started off with a Kawasaki 100, then upgraded to one of the Honda four cylinder 350's. When she was transferred to Alaska (she was a National Park Ranger), she thought her bike riding days were over. She did go a number of years, without riding, before getting her “Baby Ninja.” She put many miles on that 250 before getting her current 650 GS.

“One more thought on being a good motorcycle passenger. It appears that it is easiest to be one out of the gate only if one is imbued either with a good deal of riding experience or total blissful ignorance.” I think that as a rule your observation makes perfect sense. However, there are exceptions, me being one. I'm sure that I would be a contender for “The World's Worst Passenger” award. I would also be in the running for “The Most Frightened Passenger” award as well.:eek:


Ken,
This gives me an idea, beginners luck, perhaps? There are a lot of people who have told me that I'm the only one they would ride behind; the only one they felt safe with. My mother was a good example; everyone in my family's house rode bikes, even my mom. I'm sure it must of hurt my dad and brothers feelings a bit when she insisted upon only riding pillion with me. :icon_redface:

I gave my ex-wife's grandmother her first ride, all over town, on her 84th birthday. Perhaps because I'm so terrified riding behind someone else, I have greater empathy for those on the pillion seat - who knows?

If your wife has never been on a bike, how about starting on mine. I would put on the Pirate backrest, and just ride around in your subdivision. This way she would/could get used to the movement of the bike. I would go into my “teacher mode” and cover the same things I normally do with a first-time passenger.:)

It's possible that if that was her first bike ride her opinion might change one way or the other. She may be a pillion fan or decide she needs her own bike, one never knows. My ex rode about 500,000 miles on the back of my bikes, she never wanted her own bike. She used to do her knitting while on the back, some times she would read - holding her book against my back. We also had a strap we put around both of us so she could take a nap while crossing Texas.:)

Frank

[fganger]

Opps! Bonnie "suggested"* a couple of changes: The return trip was closer to 7,000 miles. The other was that she was tempted (many times) to fly back. What made the difference? She bought an Air Hawk seat in Sturgis; it made all the difference. Well it made a difference at least.

Frank


* My suggestion to anyone contemplating "involvement" with a woman is to be sure she is not a weight lifter.

Oh no dear, this? Why it's nothing at all.