Need a little help with the KS please...

[Ed K]

Hey guys, I have 31k miles on the KS now, and had my first failure.

Went for ride in the Mts, about 100 degrees today.

On the way back stopped at a light, and it just died.

Thumbed the starter, and it engaged, but it would not turn.

Pushed it off the road, and thought it might be the battery, so I removed it, called Mz. Paty, brought it Cycle Gear for a check (since it was Sunday). They tested battery and said its fine, just needs charging. So charged it for hours then reinstalled it, but no-go. Lights good, can hear fuel pump click, but would not turn over.

Hope its not my Canbus or ECU.

Any ideas?

[jamming]

Ed, I've got plenty of ideas, however, you need to have the battery load tested. That's "probably" the culprit. I'll bet it fails the load test. Replace the battery. BTW I'd date Big Bertha the love of the 6th fleet before I'd listen to Cycle Gears mechanical advice.

Look, Ed, step away and take a deep breath. The CANBUS and the ECU are pretty robust but the batteries are not. These BMW''s we all love are Electron Whores and they don't like it if they do without even one electron they need. Hells Bells, MOST "modern" bikes are. My Triumph is
Semi-Canbus which means the engine electrics such as the sensors and what not are Canbus, but the lights and accessories are not. Its made for some interesting wire chasing.

[Jaythro]

Either that or try bumping it (bump start) just to assure yourself it runs then go slap some heads in the battery shop and go find yourself an Odyssey

EDIT If you choose to Bump start the bike to test it is running stop the bike asap and change the battery before riding any distance !

The amount of energy that the alternator fights to stuff in a dead battery is really not good for canbus ecu stuff


OR just go get a fresh good battery and fit it and try the starter

[Ed K]

Thanks guys...I was pretty desperate to go to Cycle Gear on Sunday, and somehow also it's the battery. I don't think their simple tester was that sophisticated.

I was very lucky that a fellow BMW rider (who I did not no previously), helped get the bike into his garage. I removed the battery, and next first step will be on Tuesday for BMW to load test it. Battery is only a year old but has not been used as much this California winter, and I have not trickle charged it.

Head Lights appear bright though, when turned on (?).

I have seen some strange posts about cam chain skipping tooth...with same characteristics...yikes, hope it not that.

[Ed K]

Battery load tested ok at BMW...towed to hospital.

Hmmm...hoping it's not ECU...its out of warranty now.

[Ed K]

Ok guys, here's the scoop... The engine actually threw a rod... Not! Just kidding. Hmmm, maybe should not joke like that.

Anyway, it turned out to be a relay associated with the starting system.

The relay is supposed to shut down power to just about everything except the starter when it works properly.

I've noticed previously that some times when I restart after the engine is hot, it would kick over very slowly, but always started. I thought something might be wrong with my battery. But apparently the relay was affected by the heat. This time, the relay completely failed, and enough power was not routed to the starter. Then, no go.

The relay is a pretty inexpensive part, but labor to diagnose root cause, and removing tank to install new relay, will cost a few bills.

May have it back by tomorrow, if not, by next Tuesday.

[Dirty Doug]

Not bad when you consider what it could have been. Let me guess " Gee, that never happens "................ Glad you'll be back on the roads soon.

Dirty Doug

[jamming]

That's it??? A relay failure? That's good, could have been far worse. Like DD said, you'll be riding again soon.

[Ed K]

Yes guys, very fortunate indeed.

[Ed K]

Well, relay now replaced, but bad news: "mechanical obstruction when turning crank...it turns about 17 degrees..."

Maybe my joking comment was not so far off...maybe too many redlines? Or maybe cam chain skipped a tooth. Dang.

Did not hear any weird mechanical noises when it died. It just sort silently retreated to idle and kicked the bucket. (I was pretty consistently pushing redline, and a bit beyond, about 30 minute before this...but I always do that. And for the 30 minutes before this happened, I was cruising slowly home on more congested roads. It was about 100 F, at the time.)

Btw, did I mention it's four years old, and out of the 3 year BMW warranty?

[DarthRider]

Bummer, Ed!
What are you going to do?

[Ed K]

I dunno Dave...my wife has seen me moping around the house due to not riding my two-wheeled partner, and seeing that big empty spot in the garage, while it's in the hospital supposedly for a simple electrical relay problem...

But then today the words: "mechanical obstruction" is almost too much to bear... major life threatening surgery may be needed!

How could this happen to my bike? It has been impeccably maintained.

And my sweet Mz Paty says, don't let it bother you, get another one! Wow, and she doesn't even approve of my riding.

And then Dean called, and tried to calm me down with his supportive advice and counsel. Thank you Dean.

Ok, I need to get some perspective...this is only a motorcycle, right?

And, there were good things about this "incident": it could of happened in the middle of Death Valley, or the remote Mountains of the Tetons, or Sawtooth, Montana; or Nevada or Arizona or Oregon deserts; or tons of other places we've been together; or in the unpopulated areas of Utah in what was to be a near future planned trip. She tried hard to not make it too difficult for me.

But, oh no, just thinking, maybe this is it...we may never ride there...or it won't be the same level of confidence. Ut oh, this is turning negative again. Until death do our KS part! Maybe this is death...

Ed, Ed, Ed, get a grip!!! The "Race Bike in a Tuxedo" would have wanted that way!!!

We had a good run, but "it ain't over 'till it's over." She might still come out of this coma. At this stage we can hope the cam chain skipped a tooth at slow idle and there was no damage to valves or those beautiful high compression pistons that have almost always seen only Chevron premium fuel with Techron. And, that and we can just put the cam chain back on, right, its possible, right?

Ok, ok, I know, unlikely, but it is possible.

Is my KS an important part of my life? Ummm, Yeah.

Whew, I am exhausted.

[DarthRider]

Sounds like "worst case" is you won't have too good a trade-in for a new bike, but with Paty's blessings.
Between that and "best case"...not too shabby, either way!

[Sir Limpsalot]

At this stage we can hope the cam chain skipped a tooth at slow idle and there was no damage to valves or those beautiful high compression pistons that have almost always seen only Chevron premium fuel with Techron. And, that and we can just put the cam chain back on, right, its possible, right?


Ed, sorry matey, but don't get your hopes up. I've seen lots of this sort of shit over the years on cars (what wanker invented the timing belt anyway?) and with very, very rare exception it has always resulted in valve damage. The pistons will be fine though!
Trading it in in it's present state isn't the best idea either. Better to swallow the repair bill and have a bike that's actually worth something.

I'm told the VFR1200 is really rather good..

[panthercity]

Are there enough K16s around for dealers to take trade ins yet?

[Deans BMW]

Are there enough K16s around for dealers to take trade ins yet?

Not yet PB, BMW is still running three full shifts on the K16 line alone. Normally BMW like most M/C manufactures batch a model then batch another model on that same line. Of the three M/C mfg lines at BMW two are doing the batch method and the third is strictly the K16 with three shifts. I don't know about the two other lines as far as how many shifts. In the US, the New Jersey wearhouse is empty and waiting for the 2012 models. There are no more 2011 GS models except for a few remaining at dealers. San Jose has taken orders with deposits for K16's to be delivered hopefully 4th quarter of this year and some for 1st quarter next year.

Its a good time to be a BMW dealer providing you run your business with a good and sound plan. Speaking of which, Chicago BMW the 20% off parts king has closed its doors. Proving once again that you can not stay in business selling below your ACTUAL COST with the hope of making it up in volumn. IMHO, you need to cultivate a loyal customer base and customers that make all their decisions strictly on price are loyal to no one and in my experience tend to become the biggest pain in the butt.

[Sir Limpsalot]

Proving once again that you can not stay in business selling below your ACTUAL COST with the hope of making it up in volume.

Well, yes, as a business model - that sucks. If you're selling below cost then the more you sell.. Maybe I could get a job advising those dealerships of simple maths?

[Ed K]

Thanks guys...

Yes Dave, I should remember the many blessings.

Si, the VRFs are nice, and although have not ridden one, talking with guys who have or had KSs and VRF1200s, I don't think the VRF1200 is a match for me.

Have an update on the KS: the patient is scheduled to be transported to another hospital (in San Jose) on Friday, and have surgery performed by a different doctor. (Thanks Dean and Chris!)

[Deans BMW]

The best surgeons in the business have decided to help a friend in need and have dispatched their trusty ambulance to said location to provided needed restoration to like new condition.

Being that it was a soft shut down and did not start after the......... er..........."relay"...... fix the strong speculation is that the only possible damage might be a valve or two plus the reccomended replacement of cam chain and sprockets.

Roger, yes it is an interference engine.

[Sir Limpsalot]

That really is good news. Where would you BMW boys be without ol' Dean eh?

Ed, I look forward to a satisfactory outcome and your next ride report!

[DarthRider]

Ed, I'm very happy you now have a "light at the end of the tunnel"!

[Ed K]

Thanks guys, we are now hopeful for a complete recovery, and that our relationship will be fully restored...

...And, whew, that I might regain some small measure of sanity.

[DarthRider]

...And, whew, that I might regain some small measure of sanity.
Ed, I find sanity to be highly over-rated.
But not bikes!

[Ed K]

You got me thinking Dave, maybe it's the other way around...I am only comfortable with a return to insanity!

Update: patient has been successfully transported to the SJ BMW Motorcycle hospital, and will undergo exploratory endoscopic surgery to enable a complete diagnosis, together with recommended remedial surgery and a complete get-well plan.

Whew, sure am glad she is in the hands and minds of pros now...thanks again Dean and Chris, and the entire SJ team!

[Sir Limpsalot]

Whew, sure am glad she is in the hands and minds of pros now.

Indeed. I don't imagine that SJ BMW have often diagnosed a locked up engine as a starter relay..

[Arby]

Indeed. I don't imagine that SJ BMW have often diagnosed a locked up engine as a starter relay..

:):001::)

This premature cam chain failure thing seems to be not an uncommon thing . I recently completed a top end job on my dohc equiped DRZ 400 S Suzuki. The reason being it had lost almost all compression caused by the two compression rings having collapsed and frozen in the rings lands (grooves in piston for the rings)

While I had it apart, I checked the cam timing and found that the timing (cam) chain had worn so badly, that when the crank was at TDC, the cams were a full 1/4 of an inch (roughly 25 mm?) retarded and the automatic cam chain adjuster was fully extended.

I'm not sure how it even ran with the cams retarded that much. I believe the ring failure saved me from a much more severe cam chain failure . A new cam chain and manual adjuster brought the timing marks back in perfect alignment.

I can't help but think that the engine manufacturers are having a difficult time finding the fine line between not enough cam chain tension and too much.

In my case, the problem was well documented on the DRZ forum on Thumper Talk . They sell a manual adjuster to eliminate this problem.
Plus, Suzuki started installing a new, improved, automatic tensioner in the later model DRZ's.

(My engine had 8,000 dual sport miles on it)

It'll be interesting to hear if BMW has a "new, improved cam chainer tensioner" to install in your bike, Ed.

If you already knew about this problem via the internet, would mean others are having the same problem, it seems.

OTOH, bouncing the tach off the rev limiter, pass red line, might not be conducive to longevity of certain engine parts. :)

RB

[Ed K]

Arby,

I consider myself to be pretty well informed regarding KS minutiae, but this through me for bit of a loop. At this stage its all still supposition, and need to wait until it's disassembled to confirm the problem.

There is an improved tensioner that was installed, and also bike had valves adjusted/chain inspected as per BMW mtce schedule at 18,000 miles. Next BMW recommended service for valves and chain was 36,000 miles. Mine has 31,000. KS are known to make some cam chain noise upon start-up.

The KS uses a hydraulic tensioner, so it takes oil, under pressure to tension. Perhaps this is why it happened (if this is confirmed), on:
1) A very hot day (thinned oil)
2) At idle
3) K1200S also idle a bit rough on very hot days

With regard to redlining, this should not effect it at all, these bikes are made to be ridden. And, in any event, ain't changing my riding.

[Ed K]

Indeed. I don't imagine that SJ BMW have often diagnosed a locked up engine as a starter relay..

Indeed.

[Deans BMW]

Nothing from BMW.....yet, but Chris reccommends changing the cam chain and sprockets at 40,000 miles on the K1200 engines, not the brick engines.

[panthercity]

Ed, this may (or may not) be germane.

http://rvbprecision.com/motorcycles/bmw-k1200-srsport-cam-chain-retainer-installation.html

[Deans BMW]

Just talked with SJ, they plan to get on it today incase any special parts need to be ordered so that they will be in on Tuesday.

[jamming]

Nothing from BMW.....yet, but Chris reccommends changing the cam chain and sprockets at 40,000 miles on the K1200 engines, not the brick engines.

Your kidding me right? I love BMW's but some of the modern bikes have some problems that to me are simply unforgivable.

I swear I'm going back to an Airhead......:icon_rolleyes:

[Ed K]

Guys,

SJ just received the bike yesterday afternoon, and Chris just called and has already confirmed that in fact the timing chain did skip a tooth, and damaged several valves. Thanks to Chris and the SJ team.

Thank you Panther, this is exactly the issue. I have read rumors of this part in the attached link, but not seen these details. It appears the publication date of this link is July 15(?).


Ed, this may (or may not) be germane.

http://rvbprecision.com/motorcycles/bmw-k1200-srsport-cam-chain-retainer-installation.html

[DarthRider]

Your kidding me right? I love BMW's but some of the modern bikes have some problems that to me are simply unforgivable.

I swear I'm going back to an Airhead......:icon_rolleyes:
I'd recommend reading the article Panthercity Bob recommended, and the companion piece RVBPrecision did on BMW's hydraulic camchain tensioners.
Especially his "comments".
I did the hydraulic tensioner w/reservoir upgrade on my R1150R. It transformed it from an embarrassing, rattly-ass start up to a smooth & quite one.
And it "only" cost me a little over $100 and a couple of hours of my time.
Of course I didn't hear about it from BMW, I had to track it down on the Internet. And they incorporated the same design flaw in the K12 motors!
Ed, I'm happy your getting yours fixed up, but wouldn't it have been nice to hear about this from BMW *before* it happened, and had the option for a $120 D-I-Y job rather than what it's going to cost you now? Or maybe even comp you the fix kit? I mean 2 fix kits?
But like the guy in the article said, what can you expect from a $20,000 motorcycle?
New camchains & sprockets every 40K miles, for one thing...

[DarthRider]

WOW!
I just got an email from a friend who was riding his K12S back to Fort Worth from Colorado yesterday.
I told him about the "scenic route" from Amarillo to FW, and unluckily for him, he took it.
He said the clutch "blew out" (whatever that means), of course in the middle of Bum F**k Egypt and he was stranded.
He's home now and I pointed him to this thread thinking he should have this cam chain thing fixed before it fails.

[Ed K]

The new tensioner is well known amongt K12 owners (mine has the later version, as I also did with my R1150R), however the retainer solution is not something well known, nor is it a recall item.

[panthercity]

Roy Bertalotto has published a number of good tech articles over the years. I first noted him shortly after I bought my `94 R1100RSA. Pretty good stough on his site.

[DarthRider]

Roy Bertalotto has published a number of good tech articles over the years. I first noted him shortly after I bought my `94 R1100RSA. Pretty good stough on his site.Wild Will should get him to be his Tech Editor...

[Sir Limpsalot]

Wild Will should get him to be his Tech Editor...

Certainly he should. But as Will and his magazine seem to be pretty cosy with BMW and it's corporate wallet I think it unlikely..

[Ed K]

Had a visit to the hospital today to visit the SJ team, and my two-wheeled partner undergoing surgery.

On life support, naked, many parts covering the operating table... This would be scary, if it was not at SJ BMW.

Also had a debrief that included part mechanical assessment/walk-through of the patient, and part counseling to calm me down, explaining that she will be ok.

I keep telling myself... It's just a motorcycle, it's just a motorcycle, it's just a motorcycle...

Sure am glad the SJ doctors are performing this intricate operation... Thanks again to Dean, Chris, Willy, Pete, Tom, and the entire SJ gang, for everything! Including fitting this big job into your busy service schedule.

Btw, was advised the issue is not related to my riding style, the chain just fatigues after a while...and with the new guard in place, the skip should not re-occur, even if some fatigue develops when the miles build again on this new chain.

Bike will be ready soon, shod with new PR2s, with the hope that I can still reach escape velocity from work out of California, then hit warp-speed through Nevada, to arrive in the Utah canyons for several days.

[Ed K]

Ut oh, just received a vm...another isse... but too late to call...

[Arby]

Ut oh, just received a vm...another isse... but too late to call...

Keep us posted, Ed. I'm sure it's all going to work out fine.

Remember, "It's just a motorcycle ............

RB

[Donson]

Ed, My Buddy Tom just sold His Bronson bike on E-Bay, due to a divorce. You shoulda bought it.....Touring bike, enduro, hill climber, all rolled into one!:)

[Deans BMW]

Ed, talked to them on the way back from Texas several hours ago. Everything is going to be allright. They came up with a good solution.

[Ed K]

Thanks Bob, Don and Dean.

I am so fortunate that the SJ team is working on my bike, and have a trust and confidence that can only come from this group of passionate professionals.

Have been thinking more about men and machines, and why some machines are so special to some men, and will try to capture that in the next post.

[Ed K]

Ever notice that it seems some couples are just “made” for one another?

Not that they don’t face adversities, and sometimes they even cause their own adversities, but they stay together, and overcome them.

It’s kinda like that with my K1200S.

This latest series of issues definitely is unsettling, but needs to be weighed in the context of the entire relationship.

One might think that I am “loyal” to BMW, but actually my loyalty is not to the Roundel; its more because BMW knows me better than any other motorcycle company.

I mean, when BMW designed the K1200S, they got inside my head and made it for me.

Heck, it practically is me.

What other bike makes my adrenaline pump when those horses of passion rip-up the pavement at full song, and makes me feel so good afterward?

And then, as a bonus the next day, rides with me across a state with luggage at triple digit speeds for hours and not make me feel like a pretzel when I arrive?

Not to mention, looks pretty sexy too.

Answer, for me, is: None.

Now, I am not saying that other motorcycles aren't a good fit for other guys, nor am I saying that the K1200S is a good fit for anyone else.

But, some men and machines are meant to be with each other… and can withstand sometimes significant adversities.

I do admit that my eye has strayed from time-to-time to other bikes, but nothing, so far, is as satisfying as the K1200S. As examples...

A VFR1200. Ok, straight line performance it can haul ass about the same…but VFR handling is not in the same league as the K12.

An S1000RR (or any other pocket rocket)? Well, my K1200S is faster through almost all of the street-usable rev range, except the very, very top. *And besides, what about sport touring…on RR? Even if I could manage to walk after a long days ride on an RR, where do I put my stuff for the next 10 days of the trip?

A new K1300S, well ok, it is marginally improved over the K1200S. But are those incremental improvements worth another 13 large after trade? Besides, the 12 is a bit smoother, and retains the BMW style directional switch gear, and mine is Black!

Another example some men and machines made for each other would be my daily driver car. A 15 year old Camaro Z-28. Blue Book value is not high, but it's very special...to me.

To wit: Near mint condition; 5.7 liters of American Iron (yes, it's iron); last of the breed LT1 small block push rod with enough torque to rip a house from it's foundation. Just the essentials, thank you, through special order: 6 speed manual, radio, T-tops, fat tires, limited slip rear, manual roll down windows. Oh, and that wondrous sound from the old-time small block push rod V8, was included at no extra charge.

Ok, ok...so with a manual clutch is so heavy that after 15 years of driving the dang thing I am getting arthritis in my left foot. Mz. Paty says, get another car! What? Blasphemy! So what if it's hurting my foot, this car is special, and fun, even if it cripples my foot. I still love spinning those rear wheels, using that torque, blasting around with tops off...just like the first day I got it 15 years ago. It's a fun car! I'll just stop walking, or ride my motorcycle if my foot gets too bad.

So, I close with this. Is there anything that could come between me and my KS?

The answer is yes, maybe some day BMW, or another company, will steal my passion with something else the lights my fire, but still meets my other needs. Or its possible I might split my passion, and change my monogamous motorcycle ways. Time will tell.

But right now, after the KS surgery is completed by the fabulous team at SJ, she will come home, and we are going to celebrate...big time!

As for car, I don't think there will ever be another in her league...cars are changing with all the govt regulations, and they just ain't got soul anymore (apologies to Bob Seger).

And so it is: Despite adversities, some men and machines were just meant for one another, in sickness and in health, and let not a few adversities cast that relationship asunder.

[Sir Limpsalot]

Thanks Ed, a most entertaining read.

I have a friend who bought a one owner, low mileage, Vincent Black Prince in 1956 and never felt the need to "update" to a newer model. OK, he did flirt - once - with a new bike (a Moto-Guzzi LeMans) but really the Vin' was the only bike for him and he rides it to this day. Perhaps the K12 is your Black Prince?

I've never been lucky enough to experience that feeling. Every bike I've had has left me wanting "more" (or, at least, "different") and I've never found lasting happiness (sigh). Perhaps I'm just a tart?

Are you going to spill the beans as to exactly what the "new" problem was? Or does that remain a closely guarded secret?

[1MPH]

Well said Ed. Thanks for sharing.

[Arby]

Thanks Ed, a most entertaining read.

Are you going to spill the beans as to exactly what the "new" problem was? Or does that remain a closely guarded secret?

Do tell, Ed. We're all curious, I'm sure.

RB

[DarthRider]

Ed I read you loud and clear. It's great to see someone keeping a BMW these days past a couple of years or so.
I am into the 11th year now with my R1150R and despite the common BMW travails with him, he's a keeper.
I always wonder when someone sells a good, relatively fresh bike, what is it that bike won't do now that it would do then?
Good on ya' Bro!
Yes Simon, you are a tart...:ricky:

[Donson]

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv21/bryanetta2009/26thLOPRallye063.jpg
Thanks Ed, a most entertaining read.

I have a friend who bought a one owner, low mileage, Vincent Black Prince in 1956 and never felt the need to "update" to a newer model. OK, he did flirt - once - with a new bike (a Moto-Guzzi LeMans) but really the Vin' was the only bike for him and he rides it to this day. Perhaps the K12 is your Black Prince?

I've never been lucky enough to experience that feeling. Every bike I've had has left me wanting "more" (or, at least, "different") and I've never found lasting happiness (sigh). Perhaps I'm just a tart?

Are you going to spill the beans as to exactly what the "new" problem was? Or does that remain a closely guarded secret?
http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv21/bryanetta2009/26thLOPRallye064.jpg
Black Prince at Lake O' The Pines, 2010.

[Dirty Doug]

Ed,
You could have been speaking for me. When I crashed my beloved 1150GS it was like losing a member of the family. I know the newer GS motorcycles have vast improvements over the 1150 but damn if it wasn't all that I ever wanted. As soon as I get this leg thing finally ( I hope ) repaired I'll be looking to replace it with another 1150GS. As for the Z-28 needless to say I love American iron and the small block bowtie a lot. I'm starting to get back on the S-10 build and will post pictures soon. Since I last posted last I've added new wheels and tires ( tyres...sorry Simon ) and did a bit of interrior work. Hope to get it to the paint and body man before the fall.

Dirty Doug

[Ed K]

Thanks guys for all of your comments.

I am so happy!!! She's home again!!!

Thank you Chris, Willy, Shannon!!! Got the K1200S and took it through its paces in the country yesterday, and I gotta tellya, its performance is now equal to or better than prior to this incident thanks to the mechanical magicians at SJ that worked on my bike.

Thanks to Pete for fitting me into such a busy service schedule, getting parts quickly, and finding my preferred tires. And thanks to Tom for retrieving my beauty with care when she could not even walk by herself.

Dean, thank you for calling to help a friend and fellow BMW nut in need; it is very much appreciated!!!

And sorry guys having been away for a while, but quite honestly, I just could not bear to discuss motorcycles, when mine was in the hospital...

As an example, the lovely Mz Paty said to me last week: "You are so quiet, are you ok?"

I thought to myself:

Am I ok???

Is a caveman ok, without a club?

An archer ok, without a bow?

A fighter pilot ok, without a jet?

A F1 driver ok, without a race car?

A passionate motorcyclist, ok, without a motorcycle???

But, I did not say any of the above, instead I said: "Well, I haven't been without a motorcycle for this long since 2004."

And although she was on the other side of the room and I could not see her, I detected some irritation in her voice when she said, "Sounds like you are talking about a girlfriend."

Then, there was silence, and suddenly, a positive vib all around. My sweet wife, how I love her dearly for putting up with me and motorcycles!!!

On a separate but related note, you have heard the story of the little angel and the little devil sitting on either side of your shoulders? Well, one is telling me, "it's just a motorcycle", the other is telling me "it's more than that." I think I know which one is winning, but I have not quite yet figured out which one is the angel and which one is the devil!

Anyway, I have used the "down" time (and I do mean down), to develop a plan to hopefully achieve escape velocity from work for an 11 day bike celebration party through Cali, Nevada and to the canyons and deserts of Utah, starting next weekend...the only time I can escape from work commitments until November.

Since the lovely Mz Paty does not ride, the plan is to arrange for other means to meet me in St George for few days, toward the end of my tour.

Wow, so much to do, so little time...if it turns out to not be feasible to do all this by next weekend, I am sure we can come up with a Plan B!

Thank guys for all of your support!

[Deans BMW]

Ed, I love your writing, gave me a laugh this morning. All good humor has a strong kernal of truth and what you wrote has plenty.

Glad your "Black Prince" is back where it belongs.

Life, though always is good now is better.

Ride safe my friend.

[Donson]

Ed, glad You got Your Baby back!
Give My love to Utah!

[Ed K]

Thanks Dean and Don for the well wishes... I attempt to add a dash of humor now and then, and glad to hear it provided some chuckles.

[Sir Limpsalot]

Anyway, I have used the "down" time (and I do mean down), to develop a plan to hopefully achieve escape velocity from work for an 11 day bike celebration party through Cali, Nevada and to the canyons and deserts of Utah, starting next weekend...the only time I can escape from work commitments until November.


Take your camera!

Glad you're all sorted out now. BTW, what exactly was the last little problem that needed "further attention"?

[Deans BMW]

Aparently the cam got bent or something. The cams in that bike are hollow. from what I understand, Chris was able to find a new used one.

[Donson]

Friend of Mine stopped by Saturday, with a long face. Her Mitsubishi Galant had just broken a timing belt.
It bent valves and damaged pistons. Probably more. I asked Her if it had ever had a timing belt changed.
"No, its only got 240,000 miles on it".:patch:

[jamming]

Friend of Mine stopped by Saturday, with a long face. Her Mitsubishi Galant had just broken a timing belt.
It bent valves and damaged pistons. Probably more. I asked Her if it had ever had a timing belt changed.
"No, its only got 240,000 miles on it".:patch:

Interference motors will do that....The motor in Terries Toyota SUV is a non-interference motor, it lets go, it quits running, no hurt parts. The timing belt is a royal PITA to change DAMHIK....whatever happened to timing CHAINS??????

[Donson]

"whatever happened to timing chains?"
They put it on Ed's bike! har har!:001::guitarist::041:

[jamming]

"whatever happened to timing chains?"
They put it on Ed's bike! har har!:001::guitarist::041:


I stand corrected.... ;)

[Ed K]

Are you going to spill the beans as to exactly what the "new" problem was? Or does that remain a closely guarded secret?

No secrets among you guys, just been busy making arrangements to leave on Sunday, work, etc.

Just finished Mz Paty's flight to meet me, now my stuff.

Regarding the bike, the major parts included: 8 valves, one cam chain, two cam chain sprockets, and an exhaust camshaft...and...the new part recently released a few months ago: the cam chain skip guard.

Reason camshaft had to be replaced is the mounting point for the top sprocket is on the exhaust camshaft, and when the chain skipped a tooth and caused the valves to hit the pistons, the force transmitted to the mounting point on the camshaft caused it to crack.

[Gord]

I have not been into the Cafe for a long time now, and it pains me to come back to this thread. But Dean referred me here since last Sunday Klink, my beloved 2008 K1200S went down and out for the count! I hope and pray that the techs at Open Road BMW in Newmarket can resurrect Klink like SJ BMW did for Ed's Black Beauty.

Sunday morning I decided to take the bike over to the bank before sitting down to watch football. Suited up, did my usual check of the bike, started it up and headed out of the village towards town. I did about 60 kmh (~35 mph) heading out of the village. The limit increases to 80 kmh (~50 mph) which I accelerated to, and then twisted the throttle up to 120 kms (~72 mph) to pass a few vehicles. As I tucked back in, I suddenly heard marbles in a can and freaked out! Pulled over to check the bike. Oil level was still good. No binding cables or anything. I had the coppery taste of fear in my mouth as I pondered internal issues! Then I saw oil dripping, some smoking from oil that had sprayed back on my pipe, and I felt an agonizing pain in my gut like I had been kicked. Clearly there is something horribly wrong with Klink. This week has been agonizing as I ponder whether it was the chain or whether I had thrown a rod.

I won't get the bike to the dealership until this Saturday, so I won't know anything until next week some time. I am at a loss to understand why this problem happened. I certainly was not abusing the bike. I service Klink according to the maintenance guide. I actually just had the 40,000km service done at 39,000 km in the 3rd week of July. I take care of my bike better than I take care of myself!!! I haven't finished paying for the bike yet and I fear I am looking at a significant repair cost (my warranty expired in June!). I am preparing for a worst case scenario, but crossing my fingers that the problem will not be as catastrophic as I am fearing. I am also hoping that BMW Motorrad Canada will honour my recently expired warranty given that my service has been spot on.

I will keep you posted (sorry for hijacking your thread Ed!).

Piss poor of me though to return to the Cafe under these circumstances!

[DarthRider]

Hey...you don't want crunches, oil leaks & smoke?
Get a Honda.

[Gord]

Get a Honda.

Got one, but the damn thing is a Civic!

Bro' Paul tells me to turn Klink into a family room display and get a Harley! Or a Triumph!

Cruel! But fair!

[Sir Limpsalot]

Gord-o, welcome back. But, oh, what a sorry tail. I feel for you - sincerely - I know how much that damn bike means to you. And what a high regard you (previously, anyway) held it in. Let's hope that BMW Canada do the decent thing with regard to the warranty. Let's face it 40,000 kilometers is only about 24,000 miles - a pretty short lifespan for an expensive bike!
Don't pay any attention to your ugly twin brother, you've got VFR1200 written all over you! :)

[Dirty Doug]

So sorry for your troubles Gordo it really stinks. To echo Tex Davis I hope BMW steps up but I would be susprised.Still aside from crashes which were all my fault I have over 250,000 trouble free miles on the boxer twin..................that's all I'm saying.

Good Luck, Dirty Doug

PS: Welcome back as this old fart missed your insites and input.

[Gord]

I don't want to be depressed or fatalistic about Klink's fate, but I found myself wondering what I would do if Klink suffers an early demise.

Strangely I still found myself thinking BMW. But a return to a Boxer Twin!

But I also found myself remembering how much I enjoyed the Road King I rode in Vegas back in May. Getting a Harley would be a life changer though. I would have to put on an even bigger gut, get a few tats, start a collection of doo-rags, and change my entire wardrobe out for a complete set of HD Dealer T-Shirts and wife beaters!

Time will tell...

[panthercity]

And Donson will tell you it's worth the expense.


And trouble.


And disgrace...

;)

[JCsman]

Getting a Harley would be a life changer though. I would have to put on an even bigger gut check, get a few tats dang, missed, start a collection of doo-rags check - sort of - have one - a gift - somewhere, and change my entire wardrobe out for a complete set of HD Dealer T-Shirts checkand wife beaters MISS BY A MILE - you ain't met Judy!

See, Gord, you can transition into the lifestyle.... you know you want to.

[Ed K]

Hey Guys,

Have been not been participating much for a few weeks because of another "event" that knocked Mz Paty and I emotionally off our feet that we are re-grouping from...but not for here...

And have been very busy with work challenges that will prolly continue at an accelerating pace through end of year...

Very sorry to hear Gord about Klink. And sorry to say it sounds like a rod, or similar, not cam chain.

It is rare for KS to throw a rod, but it appears to be due do an oil channel getting clogged to the outside (#4? cylinder). Also, this is not certain, but it appears to happen more often with Dino, rather than Synthetic oil. Which do you use?

Regarding warranty, since yours is just a couple of months out of warranty you may have a good chance at a Good Will claim that the dealer can submit on your behalf, usually after the work is done and paid for.

In my case, the bike was a year and 3 months out of warranty, but I had formally noted cam chain noise on the BMW service records (not at SJ) while still under warranty. And the fantastic team at San Jose went a few rounds with BMW that ultimately resulted in my being reimbursed for parts from BMW.

Since yours is so close to warranty, it hopefully will increase the probability of a successful Good Will, possible even for parts + labor...but it could go either way...and is an unpredictable process with many "variables."

[Ed K]

...you've got VFR1200 written all over you! :)

Oh no, this is reminding me of the cat thread...the VFR keeps coming back!

I must ride that beast to settle this... From what I've read can't imagine going to a VFR after a K.

I don't think Honda shops typically do demos, but hmmm... ride up on a KS, and maybe they'll change their mind to try to convince me...

Btw, couple of weeks ago, took a RSV4 for a rip, and yeah, it was fun, and it sure sounded nice.

But kind of like the S1000RR i have also ridden, it's a bit faster at the very top end than my K, but not much, and slower in the middle, and yes lighter...but I would not trade my K for either! The K has plenty of zoot to get me excited and raise my heart rate, and can also zip me to Utah and back with ease.

Dean, btw, you were right...if I were choosing btw an RSV4 and an S1000RR, which I am not, it would be the S.

[Ed K]

There's a debate going on now regarding K1200/K1300 riders...what will the next generation be like...

And there a two points of view, but some commonalities...

First the commonalities.

1. It's already got lots of power, but make it even more ferocious.

2. Keep it a high-rev 4 cylinder, not a six.

3. It's already the lightest in it's class, but make it even lighter.


Differences

Some say: "off with the shaft and bags" (yikes!), others say: "spare the knife and leave the shaft and bags..."

As to me... 1, 2, 3 are mandatory.

And prefer shaft and bags, but would consider chain, together with decent soft bags.

Oh, and bring back black panels on a silver frame! But only when there are significant enough changes to induce me to get another one!

[Sir Limpsalot]

Ed, don't bother riding the VFR. You plainly don't want to leave BMW (yet!).

[Donson]

I don't want to be depressed or fatalistic about Klink's fate, but I found myself wondering what I would do if Klink suffers an early demise.

Strangely I still found myself thinking BMW. But a return to a Boxer Twin!

But I also found myself remembering how much I enjoyed the Road King I rode in Vegas back in May. Getting a Harley would be a life changer though. I would have to put on an even bigger gut, get a few tats, start a collection of doo-rags, and change my entire wardrobe out for a complete set of HD Dealer T-Shirts and wife beaters!

Time will tell...
Come on over, Gord.

[Sir Limpsalot]

Come on over, Gord.

Actually, the biggest surprise I had last month was just how much I enjoyed riding Don's Superglide. It rather reminded me of a Norton Commando - Dangerous Dave looked faintly disgusted when I said that at the time, but we were pulling on our helmets leaving the Cadilac Ranch so I couldn't explain - I can now. Both the Norton and the Harley have big two cylinder engines that should vibrate like bastards - but the Norton and Harley engineers hung them in rubber mounts which make them feel a smooth as you could wish. It shouldn't work so well, but it does! On both the Norton and the Harley you feel yourself shoved along the road my mighty slugs of torque. Lovely! In fact, in that respect the 1150/1200 BMW boxers feel rather weedy in comparison. They're not, of course, they're highly refined travel instruments - the new 1200GS feels like it was made by Honda, it's that good - but they lack the raw, elemental appeal of the Harley or Norton. Don's bike was an eye opener for me, with a little work on the riding position (which didn't suit me at all) I would cheerfully ride one coast to coast. And back again. Gord, you should try one.

Si.

[panthercity]

Horsepower moves `em off the showroom floor. Torque moves `em off the line.

[DarthRider]

Horsepower moves `em off the showroom floor. Torque moves `em off the line.
Well put...

[Donson]

Actually, the biggest surprise I had last month was just how much I enjoyed riding Don's Superglide. It rather reminded me of a Norton Commando - Dangerous Dave looked faintly disgusted when I said that at the time, but we were pulling on our helmets leaving the Cadilac Ranch so I couldn't explain - I can now. Both the Norton and the Harley have big two cylinder engines that should vibrate like bastards - but the Norton and Harley engineers hung them in rubber mounts which make them feel a smooth as you could wish. It shouldn't work so well, but it does! On both the Norton and the Harley you feel yourself shoved along the road my mighty slugs of torque. Lovely! In fact, in that respect the 1150/1200 BMW boxers feel rather weedy in comparison. They're not, of course, they're highly refined travel instruments - the new 1200GS feels like it was made by Honda, it's that good - but they lack the raw, elemental appeal of the Harley or Norton. Don's bike was an eye opener for me, with a little work on the riding position (which didn't suit me at all) I would cheerfully ride one coast to coast. And back again. Gord, you should try one.

Si.

Simon, You are a man of impeccable taste.

[Ed K]

Ed, don't bother riding the VFR. You plainly don't want to leave BMW (yet!).

Not so! If there's a better bike for me, I would jump in a heartbeat. I am not stuck on the Roundel. And always trying alternatives.

[Ed K]

Horsepower moves `em off the showroom floor. Torque moves `em off the line.

Why not both?

[DarthRider]

Ed, a variation of that is, "Horsepower sells motorcycles, torque wins races."

[Ed K]

Ed, a variation of that is, "Horsepower sells motorcycles, torque wins races."

Sure Dave, but there is no need to compromise with enough displacement and technology...

Perhaps a better might be, "there is no replacement for displacement"... For both torque and power.

[Sir Limpsalot]

Sure Dave, but there is no need to compromise with enough displacement and technology...

Perhaps a better might be, "there is no replacement for displacement"... For both torque and power.

Sure. Then all BMW need to do is make the S1000RR a 1500cc and it might win a WSB race..

[DarthRider]

Sure Dave, but there is no need to compromise with enough displacement and technology...

Perhaps a better might be, "there is no replacement for displacement"... For both torque and power.

Ed, I'm with you on that...to a degree. Modern engines, street engines anyway, generally do a superb job balancing both. An exception is the big HD motors with bags o' torque but not much HP.
Or 600 class 4-cyl. sportbikes, pretty much just the opposite.
And the exceptions make it all fun...like my little ER6 N Kawasaki 650 twin "streetfighter". When Si was riding it and I was riding my R1150R, we did a 4th gear roll-on. I was expecting to pull smartly away from the "little" 650. I had to chase him to 120 MPH to catch him! Then later the same R1150R had no problem hanging with the K16GT or R1200S...everywhere except the straights.
Your bike has delicious power, no matter how you define or measure it. It seems perfect for the way you ride and use it. But when you get that 140 MPH ticket and decide to take it down a notch, that might be a good time to look around at some other offerings!


Sure. Then all BMW need to do is make the S1000RR a 1500cc and it might win a WSB race..
Funny as hell, but bang-on as well! I hear that "game changer" is a pretty good little club racer but doesn't like to play with the big boys. School yard bully?

[panthercity]

Sure. Then all BMW need to do is make the S1000RR a 1500cc and it might win a WSB race..That's gonna leave a mark...

[Ed K]

Sure. Then all BMW need to do is make the S1000RR a 1500cc and it might win a WSB race..

Race winning bike? Would rather have a good street bike.

[Ed K]

...But when you get that 140 MPH ticket and decide to take it down a notch, that might be a good time to look around at some other offerings!

Yes Dave...

[DarthRider]

Yes Dave...
And if I was with you I'd get a matching ticket! Or I would if I currently had a 140 MPH bike, which I don't. About 135 is all I can muster now.
I wish you could have ridden Hoochie Mama!, my Triumph Speed Triple...160+ MPH with no fairing or shield at all. Hang on tight!